Game 33 : Jets @ spOilers

[Ducky]

I'd trade Ladd and sign Okposo in FA for 6x6.

Switch Ehlers to the LW and we are in better shape ... Okposo> Ladd ... plus we have what Ladd got us back in trade. Our top 9 get better with this trade as Staf would go down to third line and be replaced in 2017-2018 with Armia.

[Goalie]

Most shots talbot stopped and he played well but 40 of them were from the perimeter with nobody in front of him. Ya he made some good saves but if the jets knew how to raise the puck off the ice.... they all go in really. Talbot was good but lots of pretty easy saves 2. No moral victories in my opinion.  Bottom line. We are 3 points better than 30th overall. 

[Goalie]

17 minutes ago, Ducky said:

I'd trade Ladd and sign Okposo in FA for 6x6.

Switch Ehlers to the LW and we are in better shape ... Okposo> Ladd ... plus we have what Ladd got us back in trade. Our top 9 get better with this trade as Staf would go down to third line and be replaced in 2017-2018 with Armia.

Ya but what about in reality. Okposo ain't signing here BTW.  It's not gonna happen. Fantasy trades and signings are irrelevant. 

[Goalie]

PS Okposo is a RW. Not exactly an area of need with wheeler ehlers stafford 

[Ducky]

which is why i said switch ehlers to the left....

Talbot ahd 40 perimeter shots??? we watch the same game?

How many in close opportunities did he stop? LOTS!

[Brandon]

Jets just can't seem to win these type of games this season... last year they would pull through and win the close ones...  

[sweep the leg]

8 hours ago, Ducky said:

I'd trade Ladd and sign Okposo in FA for 6x6.

Switch Ehlers to the LW and we are in better shape ... Okposo> Ladd ... plus we have what Ladd got us back in trade. Our top 9 get better with this trade as Staf would go down to third line and be replaced in 2017-2018 with Armia.

Okposo's stats are helped by playing with Tavares. I'm not sure I'd pay Okposo that much to hope he can do it without him.

[17to85]

I think the shot totals are misleading. Talbot made a lot of saves, but he saw every one of them. If you let a goalie see the shot in todays NHL unless he's having a terrible game he's going to make the saves. Yeah some of them were good coming across the ice saves, but there was nothing coming through a screen, there were no scrambles in front of the net. 

 

[The Unknown Poster]

I hate to be Mr Negative but Im not sure the answer isnt to trade all the high priced expiring contracts and go "rebuild".

Wheeler is 29.  Little is 28.  Those are your key veterans.

Lets say we signed Ladd, Buff, Scheif, Trouba (and Lowry/Hutch, not to mention Stafford and Perrault are UFA's after next season).  With $12m in cap space that will put us pretty close.

Assuming the Jets arent anxious to be a cap team at any time let alone being a non-playoff team and that is simply not realistic. 

The Jets arent re-signing all those guys.  So someone has to go.  Trade Ladd for picks and prospects and our forward core is depleted.  Trade Buff for picks and prospects and our D is depleted.  If we trade them both, we accept taking another step back to take two steps forward in two or three years.  So if we accept that, then why keep either?

Stafford isnt a concern because we likely dont re-sign him (making him another piece to turn into other assets as a rental next year) or re-sign him cheap if he likes it here and Jets like him.  Jets will want to keep Perreault. 
 

Perreault-Little-Wheeler

Ehlers-Scheif-Stafford

Take the picks and prospects, get a high first round pick this year.  Embrace the youth.  Give Wheeler the "C".  Move on.

[Noeller]

Talbot made some 5-bell saves, for sure, but the Oilers are a much better team than people give them credit for. The goals they scored were really nice. Some tic-tac-toe passing and then bar-down......

[Jimmy Pop]

Re: Okposo. I'm guessing some watch him play far more than I. Other than seeing his stats, I don't know much about the player.  It's interesting how many fans want ______ here instead of Ladd or how ______ would be a better fit than Byfuglien.   Fans are often criticized for watching their own team too much and overvaluing players - but seems to me the opposite is true as well.  I believe there's 29 fanbases that would love a player like Ladd.

[HardCoreBlue]

4 minutes ago, Jimmy Pop said:

Re: Okposo. I'm guessing some watch him play far more than I. Other than seeing his stats, I don't know much about the player.  It's interesting how many fans want ______ here instead of Ladd or how ______ would be a better fit than Byfuglien.   Fans are often criticized for watching their own team too much and overvaluing players - but seems to me the opposite is true as well.  I believe there's 29 fanbases that would love a player like Ladd.

And Buff. 

[Jimmy Pop]

1 hour ago, The Unknown Poster said:

I hate to be Mr Negative but Im not sure the answer isnt to trade all the high priced expiring contracts and go "rebuild".

Wheeler is 29.  Little is 28.  Those are your key veterans.

Lets say we signed Ladd, Buff, Scheif, Trouba (and Lowry/Hutch, not to mention Stafford and Perrault are UFA's after next season).  With $12m in cap space that will put us pretty close.

Assuming the Jets arent anxious to be a cap team at any time let alone being a non-playoff team and that is simply not realistic. 

The Jets arent re-signing all those guys.  So someone has to go.  Trade Ladd for picks and prospects and our forward core is depleted.  Trade Buff for picks and prospects and our D is depleted.  If we trade them both, we accept taking another step back to take two steps forward in two or three years.  So if we accept that, then why keep either?

Stafford isnt a concern because we likely dont re-sign him (making him another piece to turn into other assets as a rental next year) or re-sign him cheap if he likes it here and Jets like him.  Jets will want to keep Perreault. 
 

Perreault-Little-Wheeler

Ehlers-Scheif-Stafford

Take the picks and prospects, get a high first round pick this year.  Embrace the youth.  Give Wheeler the "C".  Move on.

It's been the question since day 1, really. We knew we had to develop a stronger, deeper prospect pool and we have. When is the right time to "go for it" with your established veterans?  I'm not in anyway saying we're there yet, and we should go all in, but...

When is the time? If we did what you're proposing, we'd be cellar-dwellers this year and next.  Playoffs once in 6 seasons.  Sure, our prospect pool would be even stronger - but so what?  What good does a great prospect pool and a Hockey News proclamation that you're the 2019 Cup Champs do.....if we're not even making the playoffs consistently.

[HardCoreBlue]

11 hours ago, Goalie said:

Trade both Ladd and Buff. Core needs to change and moving them gets you first rounders and prospects. This isn't a playoff team. Helle was fine. Can't be blamed for any of the goals. Maybe the first but deflected off Stuart. Can't blame him for 2 one timers from 10 15 feet away even closer. PP was 0 for again. Ehlers Wheeler Burmi had strong games. Ladd myers did not. Why keep buff. He's more valuable to another team right now than he is to us. Time for a mini rebuild. That means bye to buff Ladd maybe enstrom too. Gotta break up that thrashers core a bit 

The 'change our core' is repeatably posted. Getting it to where we need it (i.e., consistently make the playoffs) doesn't happen overnight, see Chicago BlackHawks formula.

If we're prepared to dismantle this team, then we have to prepare for a lot years of looking from the sidelines.

[The Unknown Poster]

I think last season was their attempt to go for it.  They saw they could make the playoffs and had talent.  Once in the playoffs, anything can happen.  I think management thought they were better than they were.  Everyone predicted the Jets would beat the Ducks.

They brought in some veteran depth and went for it.  Now they are at a cross roads.  If Ladd and Buff had another season under contract, so be it.  But they dont.  What does re-signing Ladd and Buff give you?  There is no way the Jets are going to be a cap team UNLESS they have a reasonable expectation of Playoff success.  Because going a couple of rounds at least provides the income needed to off-set being a cap team.

Chipman said they would not be a cap team unless they saw an opportunity to truly compete and then they would go for it.  Is there anything about this team that makes them a "go for it" proposition?  Its why the kept Frolik and risked losing him for nothing last year because they were all in.

They wont make that same gamble this year.  So it comes down to a matter of what does paying Ladd & Buff do for you?  Does it allow you to compete for a playoff spot that you can win?  Maybe.  But it really hasnt yet.

If you cant win with Ladd & Buff, then dont bother.  Why be the 17th best team when you can recoup assets and be the 25th best team, assemble more assets and take a run at the right time?

Jets either believe they have a chance or they know they dont.  And thats the same answer to the question of signing Ladd & Buff.

[The Unknown Poster]

17 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

And Buff. 

Ofcourse.  And if there werent 29 teams that valued those guys then 1) there would be no point in trading them 2) their ask would be a lot less.  The issue isnt whether they make the Jets better.  Ofcourse they do.  The issue is whether its worth it in the long run.

Trading them both makes the Jets a lesser team.  But it provides assets.  Its possible they end up a bottom 5 team next season.  Its possible Chevy signs a couple of veterans to 1-2 year deals in the off-season, Lowry, Trouba, Petan, Ehlers all get better and the team isnt worse off.  But to me, the more important question is, what does this commitment to those two guys mean for Years 3-7? 

Are we trading Wheeler in two years because we have Ladd under a poor deal?  Do we fight with Trouba because we have Buff under a bad deal?

If you trade Ladd & Buff you are saying "rebuild".  It doesnt have to be a ten year rebuild.  Wheeler, Little, Scheif, Perreault, Trouba, Myers, Enstrom are a good "core" when you're adding Lowry, Ehlers, Petan, Morrissey, Connor, Roslovic.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

11 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

 Everyone predicted the Jets would beat the Ducks.

Everyone?

[The Unknown Poster]

1 minute ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

Everyone?

A lot of people.

[sweep the leg]

I definitely thought we would beat the Ducks. We were the better team in 3 of 4 games, which made it even more frustrating.

[17to85]

1 hour ago, Noeller said:

Talbot made some 5-bell saves, for sure, but the Oilers are a much better team than people give them credit for. The goals they scored were really nice. Some tic-tac-toe passing and then bar-down......

That's cause the German Gretzky is a ******* amazing passer on both his forehand and backhand.

[Mr Dee]

Basically, it came down to 0-5 Jets power play, Edmonton block 20 shots, Edmonton wins faceoff battle 45-22 and the Oilers getting a tip or 2 and the Jets not getting any.

Normally, 45 shots will get you 3-4 goals, so somewhere in there is a good goaltending performance. 

As Maurice said, they played in the right end of the rink but didn't take advantage of their chances.

Still, 0-5 on the power play says it all..

[Ducky]

For those of you that say Deadmonton played well...did you turn it off after their 3rd goal? Their goalie stole this game for them plain and simple.

TUP, we have 11.5m of cap space this year, next year we have 30m.

 

Okposo scores points at about the same pace whether he is with Tavares or not....Tavares scores less when not playing with Okposo....I was using himas an example of someone that Ladd's money could be spent on. Trade Ladd for what u can get for him and go after a FA...

[The Unknown Poster]

Are you sure we have $30m in cap space next season?

Regardless, we still have to sign players on expiring contracts or replacement players and the majority of expiring contracts will see raises.  There are some minor RFA's and UFA's but assuming we re-sign everyone currently under contract (and the ones we'd walk away from would be minor and still likely need to be replaced) we are in the same situation as this season PLUS needing raises for Ladd, Buff, Scheif, Trouba, Lowry, Hutch.

My point is the same, are the Jets going to spend near the cap for a team that isnt consistently making the playoffs?

[17to85]

12 minutes ago, Ducky said:

For those of you that say Deadmonton played well...did you turn it off after their 3rd goal? Their goalie stole this game for them plain and simple.

So just chalk it up as karma and the universe balancing itself out after Edmonton managed only 1 goal on Varlamov the game before despite throwing 40+ shots on net. Score changes a game too, it was pretty even until the Oilers went up by a couple goals and then it was full on "don't blow this" from them as you might expect considering how banged up they are as a team and how useless 2 of their lines are. 

[Rich]

2 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Are you sure we have $30m in cap space next season?

Regardless, we still have to sign players on expiring contracts or replacement players and the majority of expiring contracts will see raises.  There are some minor RFA's and UFA's but assuming we re-sign everyone currently under contract (and the ones we'd walk away from would be minor and still likely need to be replaced) we are in the same situation as this season PLUS needing raises for Ladd, Buff, Scheif, Trouba, Lowry, Hutch.

My point is the same, are the Jets going to spend near the cap for a team that isnt consistently making the playoffs?

We do have $30M in cap space next year but that is with Ladd, Scheifele, Armia, Halischuk, Buff, Trouba, Pardy, and Hutch off the books.

Have to remember if we sign Ladd to $6M per season, that is only an extra $1.5M cap hit because he already eats up $4.5M, not like you have to add the whole 6 in.

For arguments sake, lets say we sign all those guys (pure guesses on Schefele and Trouba - their contract really depends on length) .... so Ladd $6M, Scheifele $4M, Armia $1.5M, Halischuk $1M, Buff $8M, Trouba $3.5M, Pardy $1M, Hutch $2M would be $27M and put us pretty close to the cap.