What happens with this guy?

[17to85]

13 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

You don't go for 2 because your kicker can't make converts. You're making excuses for Lirim. Kickers can't have mental block. They have to be able to perform when they are called upon.

 

If your kicker is struggling to make 1 point converts why the **** wouldn't you go for 2? Seems there was some evidence to suggest it was a worthwhile strategy league wide. Confidence is a big thing for a kicker, if you recognize he is struggling then shelter him as best you can and see if he works out of the funk. When you tell a guy to go do the thing he's struggling with all the time though it just spirals. These aren't robots. 

I'm not suggesting they pin all their hopes on him rebounding either, you gotta have a contingency plan in place but I'm super hesitant to just throw away that potential without seeing if year 2 was the anomaly or if year 1 was. 

[Mr Dee]

Can you think of of a worse way to enter your option year than by walking an elephant into the room like Lirim did? Now it's there,  and everybody knows it. 

It is an issue for the Bombers as when Walters was talking about their past year today, on Dancing Gabe's birthday, he specifically mentioned their close losses. He didn't mention kicking at all, but if you convert his conversation into meaningful dialogue, you'd get his point. It was the kicker.

They'll target Medlock, and that will cost, but will we see meaningful conversation with Lirim?

We'll see...by next Friday.

Should they? Yes, of course. We hold all the cards in this game.

[Fatty Liver]

7 minutes ago, Mr Dee said:

Can you think of of a worse way to enter your option year than by walking an elephant into the room like Lirim did? Now it's there,  and everybody knows it. 

It is an issue for the Bombers as when Walters was talking about their past year today, on Dancing Gabe's birthday, he specifically mentioned their close losses. He didn't mention kicking at all, but if you convert his conversation into meaningful dialogue, you'd get his point. It was the kicker.

They'll target Medlock, and that will cost, but will we see meaningful conversation with Lirim?

We'll see...by next Friday.

Should they? Yes, of course. We hold all the cards in this game.

You lost me after "Dancing Gabe's birthday", that was a classic non-sequitur.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Throw Long Bannatyne

[Mr Dee]

3 minutes ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

You lost me after "Dancing Gabe's birthday".

No matter how one feels about the Gaber, he is one of Winnipeg's biggest sports fans, and I, for one, can finally acknowledge that in a positive way...???

[Fatty Liver]

Congratu

4 minutes ago, Mr Dee said:

No matter how one feels about the Gaber, he is one of Winnipeg's biggest sports fans, and I, for one, can finally acknowledge that in a positive way...???

Congratulations to Gabe, hope he has many more BD's. 

Did Walter's actually make a statement or do an interview today?  Link?

[Mr Dee]

Ah, he doesn't say anything about Gabe's birthday, if that's what you're looking for..?

http://www.tsn.ca/radio/winnipeg-1290/walters-dressler-signing-sets-up-busy-offseason-1.430371

 

[Fatty Liver]

15 minutes ago, Mr Dee said:

Ah, he doesn't say anything about Gabe's birthday, if that's what you're looking for..?

http://www.tsn.ca/radio/winnipeg-1290/walters-dressler-signing-sets-up-busy-offseason-1.430371

 

Good interview, thanks for the link.

[TBURGESS]

2 hours ago, 17to85 said:

If your kicker is struggling to make 1 point converts why the **** wouldn't you go for 2? Seems there was some evidence to suggest it was a worthwhile strategy league wide. Confidence is a big thing for a kicker, if you recognize he is struggling then shelter him as best you can and see if he works out of the funk. When you tell a guy to go do the thing he's struggling with all the time though it just spirals. These aren't robots. 

I'm not suggesting they pin all their hopes on him rebounding either, you gotta have a contingency plan in place but I'm super hesitant to just throw away that potential without seeing if year 2 was the anomaly or if year 1 was. 

If you have an offense like Calgary's where you have a great chance at making the 2 pointer or if you look at the league wide stats that say go for 2 more often then sure... go for two. If you're just going for 2 because you don't trust your kicker to make the single, then it's time to replace the kicker and that's what the Bombers eventually did.

The conversation shouldn't be about "Poor Lirim" who has problems making his kicks. It should be about "Poor Bombers" getting shafted because their kicker can't even make converts on a consistent basis.

[Fatty Liver]

15 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

If you have an offense like Calgary's where you have a great chance at making the 2 pointer or if you look at the league wide stats that say go for 2 more often then sure... go for two. If you're just going for 2 because you don't trust your kicker to make the single, then it's time to replace the kicker and that's what the Bombers eventually did.

The conversation shouldn't be about "Poor Lirim" who has problems making his kicks. It should be about "Poor Bombers" getting shafted because their kicker can't even make converts on a consistent basis.

O'Shea never demonstrated any gumption to try for the 2 pt. conversions regardless.

[JohnnyOnTheSpot]

Possibly Walters/O'Shea target Medlock because they already know Lirim doesn't want to sign here?  Surely they know what they've offered and what he has already said no to.

Maybe a coaching staff on their last kick at the can has learned they can't gamble with if's and maybe's on the roster?

[iso_55]

4 hours ago, 17to85 said:

If your kicker is struggling to make 1 point converts why the **** wouldn't you go for 2? Seems there was some evidence to suggest it was a worthwhile strategy league wide. Confidence is a big thing for a kicker, if you recognize he is struggling then shelter him as best you can and see if he works out of the funk. When you tell a guy to go do the thing he's struggling with all the time though it just spirals. These aren't robots. 

I'm not suggesting they pin all their hopes on him rebounding either, you gotta have a contingency plan in place but I'm super hesitant to just throw away that potential without seeing if year 2 was the anomaly or if year 1 was. 

The Bombers did shelter Lirim. Did try to help him out of his funk. The coaches did everything they could to get him to play better last season. Ultimately he lost their trust, confidence & his kicking position. We can rant to each other here but it's MOS who decides if Lirim comes back or not.

Edited January 29, 2016 by iso_55

[Guest J5V]

No one is arguing Lirim's leg or his past success but the fact is his performance was bloody awful last year and it wasn't just one game, it wasn't the holder or someone else that let him down and caused his failure, and it wasn't bad luck. It was him and just him. He stunk and he showed us just how badly he can stink and it's bad. It's always a gamble to let any player walk away but the fear of that player playing well somewhere else should not be a determining factor. Make a decision and have the guts to stand by it. Personally I want a kicker with a proven history of high-level, consistent performance and I'd be willing to pay for that kicker. 

[Guest J5V]

2 hours ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

O'Shea never demonstrated any gumption to try for the 2 pt. conversions regardless.

We were not proficient at converting red zone position last season. I can understand the lack of confidence in trying for 2 pointers. Besides, the kicker should be able to groove the PAT.

[Blueandgold]

Teams were hitting the two point conversation at more than 50 percent last year. Unless you hit your one point convert at 100%, which we were very very far from doing, i don't see any reason why you shouldn't go for two basically all of the time. O'Shea sending Lirim out there to miss converts after touchdowns was a momentum killer and also cost us points.

Edited January 30, 2016 by Blueandgold

[JohnnyOnTheSpot]

Even though teams did hit on over 50% it was with a limited amount of attempts.  I feel the percentage goes down the more you attempt it just because teams have the film on your previous converts and they plan for it to a greater degree. Coaches want to save their best plays for when they really NEED that 2 points. Once it's on film it loses some effectiveness unless you're the type of team that has a strength that works even when the other team knows it's coming.  The 2015 Bombers were not that kind of offense.

Also the consequences of missing multiple 2 pointers in a game means that you could end up beating yourself in a close one.  I'm sure coaches see this as a good way to be fired.

[the watcher]

Does anyone know who else is seriously looking for a kicker?

[Fatty Liver]

3 hours ago, the watcher said:

Does anyone know who else is seriously looking for a kicker?

Possibly Hamilton if Medlock walks.  Swayze Waters is also headed for F.A. , he struggled with injuries last season but before that he was the best punter in the CFL.

[JuranBoldenRules]

4 hours ago, JohnnyOnTheSpot said:

Even though teams did hit on over 50% it was with a limited amount of attempts.  I feel the percentage goes down the more you attempt it just because teams have the film on your previous converts and they plan for it to a greater degree. Coaches want to save their best plays for when they really NEED that 2 points. Once it's on film it loses some effectiveness unless you're the type of team that has a strength that works even when the other team knows it's coming.  The 2015 Bombers were not that kind of offense.

Also the consequences of missing multiple 2 pointers in a game means that you could end up beating yourself in a close one.  I'm sure coaches see this as a good way to be fired.

I don't really agree with this.  I just think it comes down to coaches being extremely risk averse and getting used to the new rules, focusing too much on the form chart in game management, scoring '7's.'  The game becomes one of matching scores and trying to manage it to be a one score game by the time of the last couple possessions.

Playbook is wide-open needing 3 yards.  The list of plays for 2nd and short is literally the longest one on any play chart.  You get to pick where the ball is placed.  You can use the width of the field and you have 20 yards of endzone.  Literally could run anything and have a 50-50 or better shot at the 2.

[SPuDS]

On January 29, 2016 at 9:45 AM, Noeller said:

How can you simply ignore how well he played 2 years ago?

Exactly. And like mentioned before, a sophmore slump is more common then not.  Its not something that isnt fixable and its not something that always lasts.  Why risk him regaining his form with a other team while we struggle to find yet another solution or bandaid?

 

 

[SPuDS]

On January 29, 2016 at 10:19 AM, TBURGESS said:

The post made sense until the last paragraph. It's 50-50 at best if he gets his stroke back or not. If we bring in kickers who suck, that's on the scouts, GM and coaching staff. Keeping a guy because of what he did 2 years ago in hope that he gets it back is a great way to continue to lose in this league.

Lirim didn't take our offer last year betting that he'd have a great sophomore year which would give him an NFL shot or at least a bigger paycheck this year and he lost. He'll get more chances because of his passport and because of his first year's stats in the league. Whether that's with Winnipeg or not remains to be seen.

But thats the thing.. He forced his price waaaaay down now.  Why wouldnt we be happy at that prospect?  Sign the guy who set a record for consistency at a reduced rate and IF he doesnt return to form, cut him..  If he does? We are laughing...

 

I really dont see the negatives here to be honest.   He either sinks or swims.  Its not like hes the only option we have.. Castillo did very well last year, we could draft a backup and hopefully resign lirim.  Best man at camp wins. 

[SPuDS]

On January 29, 2016 at 0:09 PM, 17to85 said:

If your kicker is struggling to make 1 point converts why the **** wouldn't you go for 2? Seems there was some evidence to suggest it was a worthwhile strategy league wide. Confidence is a big thing for a kicker, if you recognize he is struggling then shelter him as best you can and see if he works out of the funk. When you tell a guy to go do the thing he's struggling with all the time though it just spirals. These aren't robots. 

I'm not suggesting they pin all their hopes on him rebounding either, you gotta have a contingency plan in place but I'm super hesitant to just throw away that potential without seeing if year 2 was the anomaly or if year 1 was. 

And thats it exactly. We dont need to hitch the wagon to lirim (if he even wants to come back..) we can have other options available if he stuggles again..  I would just hate it to see him on another team performing at the level he was at prior to last season.. 

[Dirty30]

I have a hard time seeing anyone out kicking Medlock at this point. So he's an international big deal. He can k/o, punt and kick FGs. First and for most is that he is accurate.

[Stickem]

Medlock is by far a superior kicker to anyone we have had on our roster lately...period...He's available...you go after him...If we are fortunate enough to sign him our kicking woes have ended...Business decision and a good one...simple as that.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Stickem

[mbrg]

2 hours ago, Dirty30 said:

I have a hard time seeing anyone out kicking Medlock at this point. So he's an international big deal. He can k/o, punt and kick FGs. First and for most is that he is accurate.

There are still advantages to having a NI doing the work, but with the 4th DI on the roster they aren't as great as they used to be.  The hierarchy of optimal kicker situations used to be pretty straightforward; now things are a little more smudged.

If you can find an import who can do all three kicking jobs at a high level, the roster flexibility issue becomes a wash (at worst) compared to using two separate NI's, and it could end up as a cap management win.

There's still greater value in keeping that 4th DI spot for a positional player and paying a little extra to have a NI who does all three jobs at a high level, but not so much that the quality of the job can be allowed to suffer for it.  The kicks have to get made.

[SPuDS]

....and he lands in toronto after we sign medlock.

 

worked out best for both parties lol.  I'd hate to see him regain his former level of play there but medlock definitely isn't a slouch..  hard to complain that we brought him in (minus his cost)