Coaching ...

[IC Khari]

Is it too soon to put it out there that the Jets don't seem to be getting the greatest bench direction this season? Lots of questionable head coaching decisions IMHO ...

Edited February 3, 2016 by IC Khari

[sweep the leg]

1 hour ago, IC Khari said:

 Lots of questionable head coaching decisions IMHO ...

For example?

[IC Khari]

Stubbornly keeping lines that weren't or aren't producing together. One of the worst penalty killing and power play units in the league (that responsibility - to get better, falls on the coach). The team is still taking waaaaaay too many dumb penalties (again the coach has to instill discipline in his team). Questionable call ups and use of skilled players vs grinders. Just a few off the top of my head ...

[iso_55]

i think more questions & criticisms should be directed at ownership & management than coaching. Who supplies the talent for Maurice on the bench? WTH has Cheveldayoff done this past off season? We didn't get better. We got younger & cheaper. Maurice can't coach chicken feathers to be chicken soup. 

[IC Khari]

He had some more to work with last year, that's for sure. But you gotta get the best out of what you have as well ...

[FrostyWinnipeg]

Only thing im really p'd off about Maurice this season is that he pulls the goalie down 2 goals.

Secondary would be that Perreault seems to be the only guy completing his checks this year. Last year it seemed to cause a lot of the injuries so that's a flip-em.

[DR. CFL]

Iso has it. What do you really expect from this team? How many front line players are on this team and how many AHL players? Maurice and Chevy are given what the ownership dictates it is willing to spend. The $$$ pie is simply that Chevy may have the say in how it is split but there is only so much pie.

[iso_55]

22 minutes ago, DR. CFL said:

Iso has it. What do you really expect from this team? How many front line players are on this team and how many AHL players? Maurice and Chevy are given what the ownership dictates it is willing to spend. The $$$ pie is simply that Chevy may have the say in how it is split but there is only so much pie.

Read we are LAST in the NHL when it comes to salary. Just a few million above the floor. So yeah, just what can Maurice do? What are the Jets going to do salary wise going forward?

Edited February 3, 2016 by iso_55

[The Unknown Poster]

Soooo, we should have, what, over-paid someone (who?) to get veterans on one year deals so we could finish 16th instead of 27th?

Chipman said they have forecasts on every player, every year.  This season was a weird year where their spending was way down but only one season before they had several Free Agents that would be getting big raises. 

They gambled that Lowry, Copp, Ehlers, Petan would be sufficient.  If they had signed a few more Stafford's and it didnt work, we'd be calling for Chevy's head. 

Despite what some people thought when the Jets came back and what some seem to think now, this management has never shied away from spending money.

[The Unknown Poster]

7 minutes ago, iso_55 said:

Read we are LAST in the NHL when it comes to salary. Just a few million above the floor. So yeah, just what can Maurice do? What are the Jets going to do salary wise going forward?

Yes, however his #2 (or #1) center is on an ELC.  His #3 centre is on an ELC.  His #4 centre is on an ELC.  His #1 LW is on an ELC.  Arguably the #2 or #3 D man is on an ELC.  The starting goalie is on an ELC.

Its not that the Jets are cheap.  its that they are young.

[iso_55]

7 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Yes, however his #2 (or #1) center is on an ELC.  His #3 centre is on an ELC.  His #4 centre is on an ELC.  His #1 LW is on an ELC.  Arguably the #2 or #3 D man is on an ELC.  The starting goalie is on an ELC.

Its not that the Jets are cheap.  its that they are young.

Young mean cheap the way I see it. Unless you're Connor McDavid.

Edited February 3, 2016 by iso_55

[The Unknown Poster]

4 minutes ago, iso_55 said:

4 minutes ago, iso_55 said:

Young mean cheap the way I see it. Unless you're Connor McDavid.

Young mean cheap the way I see it. Unless you're Connor McDavid.

So what would you have had them do?  Not use those players and instead replace them with veterans that cost more, and in some cases not as good just because spending more money looks like they are trying harder?

Yes, they could have signed Stemp and Tlusty.  No, those two players werent making the difference this year.  Every one of the aforementioned rookies, with the exception of Petan, needs NHL time to continue to develop.

My point is, this season as a low salary season is an anomaly created by a series of previous long term contracts and a ton of ELC contracts still on the books.  If the Jets dont bring in a single new player next season, their salary expenses increase considerably.  So why is this year an example of the Jets not trying, but next year isnt, with the exact same players?  Its a matter of circumstance, not malicious cheapness.

If we end up with a top 3 draft pick, then we will be pretty happy how it all worked out.

[iso_55]

What would I have them do? I already said it's management & ownership that has to figure this all out. Not blame coaching.

[The Unknown Poster]

3 minutes ago, iso_55 said:

What would I have them do? I already said it's management & ownership that has to figure this all out. Not blame coaching.

Management and ownership has it figured out. that's why they didnt lock themselves in to any over-priced veteran contracts this season knowing they had a plethora of Free Agents to re-sign for next season.

[Mr Dee]

In the NHL, it's not simply a matter of spending to the limit every year especially when you have such a mixture of young-uns and big names about to be free agents. The Jets, from when they started, and up to this point, have to have had a huge budgeted-up form chart and a long term franchise plan with projections balancing the obvious with the unexpected.

Its taken a while for the Jets to get to this point and, believe or not, the team is trending upwards. For those who thought a Stanley Cup run was imminent, you're way ahead of yourselves. Even a playoff run was a question mark when so many new players and question marks existed on this team.

It's not a matter of being frugal, but rather following your long term plan. They'll reach big time spending soon enough.

TUP said it right, they do have it figured out, and are following their team chart.

[Floyd]

23 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Management and ownership has it figured out. that's why they didnt lock themselves in to any over-priced veteran contracts this season knowing they had a plethora of Free Agents to re-sign for next season.

Frolik for five years at 4.3... Stempniak at entry level...  these are not over-priced vet contracts and players that would have made a difference on our PK for sure.

Signing Pardy, Postma, etc to one-way deals basically cancelled any benefit of letting Frolik walk.

I like Chevy but his record is 50-50... the Enstrom and Stuart contracts are anchors.  We'll see what he can do soon enough.

 

[The Unknown Poster]

2 minutes ago, Floyd said:

Frolik for five years at 4.3... Stempniak at entry level...  these are not over-priced vet contracts and players that would have made a difference on our PK for sure.

Signing Pardy, Postma, etc to one-way deals basically cancelled any benefit of letting Frolik walk.

I like Chevy but his record is 50-50... the Enstrom and Stuart contracts are anchors.  We'll see what he can do soon enough.

 

Frolik chose to leave.  If you want to debate whether we should have over-paid to lure him from his decision to leave, then thats a different topic.

Toby was signed to a long term deal when he was by far our best option on D and, in many ways, our best player.  He's out #1 LHD.  His contract isnt an anchor.

Jets like to have lots of D.  Pardy and Postma being under small deals isnt preventing them from signing Frolik or anyone else.  One has nothing to do with the other.  You think Chipman said "Sorry Chevy, if you hadnt signed Pardy then sure, go get Frolik, but no, too bad".  Come on...

[Floyd]

7 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Frolik chose to leave.  If you want to debate whether we should have over-paid to lure him from his decision to leave, then thats a different topic.

Toby was signed to a long term deal when he was by far our best option on D and, in many ways, our best player.  He's out #1 LHD.  His contract isnt an anchor.

Jets like to have lots of D.  Pardy and Postma being under small deals isnt preventing them from signing Frolik or anyone else.  One has nothing to do with the other.  You think Chipman said "Sorry Chevy, if you hadnt signed Pardy then sure, go get Frolik, but no, too bad".  Come on...

So Enstrom deserves as much as Seabrook, Burns and Hamilton... give me a break.  Bad contract by a million a year.

[DR. CFL]

This reads like the patience plan we get fed on the Bomber posts. Other teams are competitive with a mix of proven veterans and youth. The draft is an important part of the equation but it is only one part. I wonder if Florida regrets signing the likes of Jagr?

[mbrg]

55 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Management and ownership has it figured out. that's why they didnt lock themselves in to any over-priced veteran contracts this season knowing they had a plethora of Free Agents to re-sign for next season.

They needed to sign any random player to a 1 year $20 million contract.  Simple.

[Mr Dee]

1 minute ago, DR. CFL said:

This reads like the patience plan we get fed on the Bomber posts. Other teams are competitive with a mix of proven veterans and youth. The draft is an important part of the equation but it is only one part. I wonder if Florida regrets signing the likes of Jagr?

But this is where the Jets want to get to....the right mix of vets and youth. 

You simply can't compare a revamped franchise (Atlanta to Winnipeg) with other established franchises. It doesn't work. As far as I'm concerned, the Jets franchise started when they got here, and all the contracts and players had to be re-evaluated, changed over and redone. This takes time. You just can't cut 20 players and start anew.

Florida?  20+ years as a franchise, so it was a good move to ink Jagr, but make no mistake, it was still a hell of a gamble..

[Floyd]

3 minutes ago, Mr Dee said:

But this is where the Jets want to get to....the right mix of vets and youth. 

You simply can't compare a revamped franchise (Atlanta to Winnipeg) with other established franchises. It doesn't work. As far as I'm concerned, the Jets franchise started when they got here, and all the contracts and players had to be re-evaluated, changed over and redone. This takes time. You just can't cut 20 players and start anew.

Florida?  20+ years as a franchise, so it was a good move to ink Jagr, but make no mistake, it was still a hell of a gamble..

Revamped?  Jets kept the Atlanta core and have even kept going back to Burmi and Cormier...

 

[The Unknown Poster]

Do you think Jagr makes the Jets go from 4th worst to competing for top spot in the division?  I dont.

They didnt go "back" to Burmi.  What does he make, $800,000?  So...we should cut him...why?

[Goalie]

There have definitely been some interesting coaching decisions made throughout the year. I'm not sure it's all on Maurice but... he is the head coach so he should definitely be looked at first. When the Jets call up guys to the roster, Maurice has a say in who comes up, Maurice also had a say in who to keep and who to let go in the off-season, don't kid yourself that he didn't, he most certainly did and it's been said that he did. Playing Thorburn on the 3rd line, that's a Maurice decision, dressing both Thor and Peluso? That's a maurice decision, putting Armia back on the 4th line while guys like Ladd and Burmi suck on the 3rd line, that's a Maurice decision, taking half a season to figure out that ESW would actually be a legit line, relying way 2 much on veterans and grinders, these are all directly on the head coach. He makes the final decision on who dresses and what spot they play, Stuart on the PK... There is definitely a long list of things that make you question the coaching. 

Last night for example, we score a goal, have some MO so to speak and what does Mo do? Mo puts out our 4th line with Stu and Chiarot... that worked well, Copp took a penalty and a few seconds later, Dallas scored again... Great coaching there. Thorburn as the 6th man when the goalie was pulled a few games ago, This love of Burmistrov who is nothing but an anchor out there, the guy just isn't good yet MO gives him every opportunity to show differently. The first time i started to go hmm about Maurice was in training camp when he wanted to have Ladd,Lowry,Little as the top line, that's just ridiculous. Lowry has no finish. Even last night, I dunno what the time of ice was but in the third, it seems like every other shift Ladd,Lowry and Burmi were on the ice while ESW wasn't... Just crazy really. 

I'm not getting in the other things, irrelevant things like STEMP and Tlusty and even frolik, who like it or not, did NOT want to be here.. doesn't matter what we would have offered, he didn't want to be here... from some accounts, we actually offered more than Calgary did and he still left, He didn't want to be here, those 3 guys are not the difference this year, actually, they probably are the difference, by that i mean instead of finishing bottom 5, we finish probably 14th and miss the playoffs and pick again in that range. 

This season is the best thing to happen to the Jets since they have been here, They needed this, it's a wake up call, it should be a wake up call to the fans too who should probably realize that last year, it was a fluke... PAV had to stand on his head for 4 games just for us to make the playoffs.. his one hot streak came near the end of the year. And we still barely snuck in, and that's with Colorado and Dallas struggling big time last year. 

 

This team needs a remake, a rebuild and regardless of who they didn't sign this past off-season, like that's relevant right now, they arent' good enough and a few depth players wouldn't make them much better, frolik, tlusty, stempniak.. maybe they win 3 or 4 more games, maybe, i doubt it but maybe....those guys do not make us go from bottom 5 to contending for a playoff spot that's for sure. 

 

Coaching? Yup, taking dumb penalties constantly is definitely on the coaches, regardless of what a few think. Dumb Penalties, constantly taking them means there is no discipline for them. Honestly, this team almost looks like they are starting to tune Maurice out... That's probably more of an indication of the talent on the ice than the coach tho... making the playoffs is great, for sure but if it's just to be swept or lose in the first round, i'd rather finish with a top 5, top 3 pick and try again next season cuz this idea that this team as it currently is or even was last season could compete for the Stanley Cup is RIDICULOUS. 1 YEAR out of 5 gonna be 6 years in the playoffs, it tells me it's time for change, tells me the current older core (Ladd,Toby, Stuart,Thorburn,Little) (I can't put Buff and Wheeler in there because they have played quite well this year), they just aren't good enough. 

I like the youth excuse tho, we are losing cuz of the youth, nope... that's really not the case at all.. Ehlers is having a great year, Helle is our best goalie we have had since the Original Jets and you'd probably have to go pretty far back in Original Jets history to find someone as good as Helle is. 

 

On average Helle has allowed 2 or less goals in 90 percent of his starts, what's pathetic about that tho? His record is almost .500 now. Tells you the team in front of him just isn't good enough. It's time to tranistion to the younger core cuz we've seen what this one can do for 5 6 years now and it's not good enough.

 

Keep Wheeler.Buff. Little (unless you do strike gold and draft Matthews) Scheif,Ehlers,Lowry,Trouba,Myer. Helle and go from there. Perreault can stick around too. Maybe you add a Kyle Connor to your team next season, maybe he's ready... This team is starting to look like a team with a ton of high end skill, they just need time.  In my opinion, in order to be good, you have to be bad for a while... right now, we are bad and hopefully what happens is we sell off some older pieces and we transition to a younger core group. Cuz...

 

The future despite what some say, is bright for this team. It's actually really bright, sometimes tho, some people can't see it. If you can't, it's unfortunate but you look at our most consistent best players the last little while and they are definitely the youth plus Buff and Wheeler. Future looks good. Just takes time to get there. 

 

Is Maurice the right coach to get us there, getting back to the original topic? I'm not sure exactly. But i do know that he is a pretty decent coach, but like any coach, he has his flaws too and at times it's pretty obvious what they are. 

Edited February 3, 2016 by Goalie

[Mr Dee]

1 hour ago, Floyd said:

Revamped?  Jets kept the Atlanta core and have even kept going back to Burmi and Cormier...

 

Did you think that they liked the entire makeup of that Atlanta team from their roster, their farm club all the way through to their draft prospects. I don't think so. They had to undergo quite a change in direction and philosophy, not to mention the entire SMS makeup. So yes, I would say revamped. 

Burmi and Cormier? 

Ill give you Cormier, but I think Burmistrov has value.

And Cormier is a good example of how long it takes to flip a main roster and a farm team's roster.