How Long???

[Ducky]

How long until we become serious contenders? Will we ever? A much easier question to answer after the draft but I am serious what everyone's opinions are.

I think by the 2018-2019 season, we will be serious contenders for the cup. Players like Trouba, Connor, Ehlers, Helle/Comrie, etc... have to come through but I think starting that season, the Jets will be considered contenders.

 

[Goalie]

I'm not convinced Trouba will be here in 2018 - 2019 but... Who really knows, i guess in order to be serious cup contenders you need to first be serious playoff contenders and we aren't there, actually, IMO, we are probably at the worst place we've ever been since coming back to Winnipeg.

Anyone read that article about Who needs to tank? It was on CBSPORTS website i think or NBC, not sure, one of them but... the team they feel should tank the most is the JETS because they are actually lacking something that the teams they have behind us.. can anyone guess what that is? I think we can, They didn't do on about the LHD group, even though they could have, They didn't go on about the bottom 6, even though they could have, they didn't really go on about the fact that our core players are almost 30 now and probably not gonna get much better, even tho they could have... lol.

You know what we lack that every team that wins the Stanley Cup has and we still don't? A franchise Center. 

Scheif is good but he's not a number 1, he's a good high end number 2 tho... Little is what he is...

You look at Chicago for example, They got Toews, and Kane and Keith and Seabrook and now Panarin among others.

LA - Kopitar,Doughty. Among others.

Boston had and still has Bergeron, He's legit, they had a younger Chara, they had beast mode Lucic

What do we got?

Not too much actually, we have some potentially very good players in Ehlers and Connor. We got Buff, but he isn't getting any younger, We got Trouba who, who really knows what's gonna happen there... he could be good or he could be traded.. who really knows.

Until we get a franchise player, The unfortunate reality with this team, it might just be, we aren't bad enough to get a top 2 pick, but aren't good enough to consistently compete for the playoffs. 

You give us Matthews or even Nolan Patrick next year and things can change but in order to actually compete, we need that Franchise Center. NEED it badly. It's our biggest need.

 

Scary thing is, what if we never get that franchise player? Then what? will we continue to pick in that 7 to 9 range like we have done somewhat consistently over the last several years? If so, i don't think we will ever be more than just a playoff pretender who makes it 1 year and then struggles the next. 

 

This Core group couldn't get it done in the ultra weak SOUTHEAST division and are now older... what makes anyone think they will be better..

 

Once our top 6 includes guys like Wheeler (seems to be the only player of the ones we inherited actually getting better), Scheif,Ehlers,Connor, Franchise Center, Armia maybe. Then we can talk about competing but right now and next year even, I'm afraid that unless Chevy starts to actually sell off some of our players, that once again, pick 7 to 9 again and that's a tough spot to get out of. 

 

Also the fact that most players have Winnipeg on their no trade list, it makes things tough, You have to tank, you have to draft well, we have been drafting well but still lacking that face of the franchise, It's buff right but Buffs 30 years old. 

Edited February 17, 2016 by Goalie

[Goalie]

As for when will we compete? Probably when we get a franchise Center, and maybe a younger Franchise D man, i like Trouba but i feel he's not that guy... I think part of the reason they signed Buff was because they feel Trouba isn't that guy either.. Like it or not, the way things are right now... Trouba is 3rd on the RHD depth chart behind Buff and Myers. I don't care if anyone thinks he's better than Myers, that's irrelevant, The coaches have him on the third pair. That says it all, He's not ready and he may never be ready.

If this was WWE and Vince Mcmahon came out here, you know what he'd say, He'd say it's time, It's time to shake things up a bit here cuz what we have here isn't really working.

Like i've said before, People can go on about you can't bring 2 much youth to the team all at once, why the hell not? Cuz reality is what we have now isn't good enough.

Throw the fans of this team, who BTW, got an email from the JETS today telling them to reserve their playoff tickets for this year, LOL at that, but... throw the fans a frickin bone really. We aren't stupid, we are smart hockey fans, we know this team as it currently is, it just won't ever get it done. It might make the playoffs and it will fool the less educated hockey fans in to think this team is FOR REAL, they are LEGIT but until we get that number 1 center and until we get that legit Franchise D man who isn't 30, we are going nowhere fast. Don't be surprised if Next year, we are in a similar position or the year after or after even. It all depends on what Chevy does this trade deadline and summer. 

But, face it, It's been 5 years and what has Chevy actually done besides drafting a few players like every other team has and signing 1 good FA in perreault. Not much...

Let's see here.. I got the 2011 team on my wall here, Let's take a look and see what's changed

Nik Antropov? Gone. Bogo? Gone. Burmi? Still here. Buff? Still here. Enstrom? Still here. Fehr? gone. Glass? gone. Hainsey? Gone. Jones? who? gone. Kane? gone. Ladd? here. Little? here. Mason? gone. McCardle lol? gone. Meech? gone. Oduya?gone. Pav? here. Slater? gone. Stapleton? gone. Stuart? here. Thorburn? here. Wellwood? gone. Wheeler? here

That's 9 guys still here from 2011... Go check out Chicago or Boston or LA and see how many guys are still on there teams from 6 years ago now? It's way less.

This team sucked then and it sucks now. Why is it a surprise? 

 

It's gonna be a while. Like it or not...It's gonna be a while and unless some big changes happen, a while might turn in to a long long while cuz of those 9 guys that we have kept since 2011, only 2 or 3 and one is burmi and 2 are little and wheeler are under 30. The other is PAV... the tank commander. 

With that being said... it could be worse. We could be Vancouver or Minnesota or teams like that who have ZERO prospects at all. 

Edited February 18, 2016 by Goalie

[Ducky]

3 hours ago, Goalie said:

I'm not convinced Trouba will be here in 2018 - 2019 but... Who really knows, i guess in order to be serious cup contenders you need to first be serious playoff contenders and we aren't there, actually, IMO, we are probably at the worst place we've ever been since coming back to Winnipeg.

Anyone read that article about Who needs to tank? It was on CBSPORTS website i think or NBC, not sure, one of them but... the team they feel should tank the most is the JETS because they are actually lacking something that the teams they have behind us.. can anyone guess what that is? I think we can, They didn't do on about the LHD group, even though they could have, They didn't go on about the bottom 6, even though they could have, they didn't really go on about the fact that our core players are almost 30 now and probably not gonna get much better, even tho they could have... lol.

You know what we lack that every team that wins the Stanley Cup has and we still don't? A franchise Center. 

Scheif is good but he's not a number 1, he's a good high end number 2 tho... Little is what he is...

You look at Chicago for example, They got Toews, and Kane and Keith and Seabrook and now Panarin among others.

LA - Kopitar,Doughty. Among others.

Boston had and still has Bergeron, He's legit, they had a younger Chara, they had beast mode Lucic

What do we got?

Not too much actually, we have some potentially very good players in Ehlers and Connor. We got Buff, but he isn't getting any younger, We got Trouba who, who really knows what's gonna happen there... he could be good or he could be traded.. who really knows.

Until we get a franchise player, The unfortunate reality with this team, it might just be, we aren't bad enough to get a top 2 pick, but aren't good enough to consistently compete for the playoffs. 

You give us Matthews or even Nolan Patrick next year and things can change but in order to actually compete, we need that Franchise Center. NEED it badly. It's our biggest need.

 

Scary thing is, what if we never get that franchise player? Then what? will we continue to pick in that 7 to 9 range like we have done somewhat consistently over the last several years? If so, i don't think we will ever be more than just a playoff pretender who makes it 1 year and then struggles the next. 

 

This Core group couldn't get it done in the ultra weak SOUTHEAST division and are now older... what makes anyone think they will be better..

 

Once our top 6 includes guys like Wheeler (seems to be the only player of the ones we inherited actually getting better), Scheif,Ehlers,Connor, Franchise Center, Armia maybe. Then we can talk about competing but right now and next year even, I'm afraid that unless Chevy starts to actually sell off some of our players, that once again, pick 7 to 9 again and that's a tough spot to get out of. 

 

Also the fact that most players have Winnipeg on their no trade list, it makes things tough, You have to tank, you have to draft well, we have been drafting well but still lacking that face of the franchise, It's buff right but Buffs 30 years old. 

Take a look at our prospects and tell me that again?

[Atomic]

How many teams actually have that kind of "franchise centre"?  LA, Chi, Pitt, Dallas... anyone else?  Tough to come by players of that calibre.  Even picking first overall doesn't guarantee that.

Edited February 18, 2016 by Atomic

[bearpants]

Simple answer... it depends on how well our prospects develop... we have one of the best group of prospects in league... if a few of them turn out to be bonafide superstars, then we will be contenders in the next 3-4 years... 

[bearpants]

Can somebody summarize those Goalie posts in a few sentences? thanks...

[New_Earth_Mud]

15 hours ago, Goalie said:

As for when will we compete? Probably when we get a franchise Center, and maybe a younger Franchise D man, i like Trouba but i feel he's not that guy... I think part of the reason they signed Buff was because they feel Trouba isn't that guy either.. Like it or not, the way things are right now... Trouba is 3rd on the RHD depth chart behind Buff and Myers. I don't care if anyone thinks he's better than Myers, that's irrelevant, The coaches have him on the third pair. That says it all, He's not ready and he may never be ready.

If this was WWE and Vince Mcmahon came out here, you know what he'd say, He'd say it's time, It's time to shake things up a bit here cuz what we have here isn't really working.

Like i've said before, People can go on about you can't bring 2 much youth to the team all at once, why the hell not? Cuz reality is what we have now isn't good enough.

Throw the fans of this team, who BTW, got an email from the JETS today telling them to reserve their playoff tickets for this year, LOL at that, but... throw the fans a frickin bone really. We aren't stupid, we are smart hockey fans, we know this team as it currently is, it just won't ever get it done. It might make the playoffs and it will fool the less educated hockey fans in to think this team is FOR REAL, they are LEGIT but until we get that number 1 center and until we get that legit Franchise D man who isn't 30, we are going nowhere fast. Don't be surprised if Next year, we are in a similar position or the year after or after even. It all depends on what Chevy does this trade deadline and summer. 

But, face it, It's been 5 years and what has Chevy actually done besides drafting a few players like every other team has and signing 1 good FA in perreault. Not much...

Let's see here.. I got the 2011 team on my wall here, Let's take a look and see what's changed

Nik Antropov? Gone. Bogo? Gone. Burmi? Still here. Buff? Still here. Enstrom? Still here. Fehr? gone. Glass? gone. Hainsey? Gone. Jones? who? gone. Kane? gone. Ladd? here. Little? here. Mason? gone. McCardle lol? gone. Meech? gone. Oduya?gone. Pav? here. Slater? gone. Stapleton? gone. Stuart? here. Thorburn? here. Wellwood? gone. Wheeler? here

That's 9 guys still here from 2011... Go check out Chicago or Boston or LA and see how many guys are still on there teams from 6 years ago now? It's way less.

This team sucked then and it sucks now. Why is it a surprise? 

 

It's gonna be a while. Like it or not...It's gonna be a while and unless some big changes happen, a while might turn in to a long long while cuz of those 9 guys that we have kept since 2011, only 2 or 3 and one is burmi and 2 are little and wheeler are under 30. The other is PAV... the tank commander. 

With that being said... it could be worse. We could be Vancouver or Minnesota or teams like that who have ZERO prospects at all. 

 

Few things ill point out that you are completely missing....

Comparing us to the teams you mentioned dont really work and here is why.... Chicago, LA and Boston ( dont know why you added Boston but ok ) Ill even add in Pitts. The reason these teams can add n subtract like they do is because they all have a solid base of players to work around. We dont have that yet. We are working to get that solid base of players. We havent yet even started signing the guys we want as our base. Your already blowing off guys like Trouba...  Hes what? 21? 22? Thats kinda early yet to be blowing him off. Everyones comparing him to Haminioc... How old is he? 25? 26? and just coming into his own now.

Now back to the teams.... How long did it take lets say the Hawks, LA and ill use Pitts as an example. From the time they completely sucked to being a solid contender year in and year out. All took between 6 - 8 years of building. Non of them just woke up and became good.

I might be wrong but i think Pitts took the shortest time and that was around 6 years.

 

Anyway thats jus my 2 cents.   

[The Unknown Poster]

1 hour ago, bearpants said:

1 hour ago, bearpants said:

Can somebody summarize those Goalie posts in a few sentences? thanks...

 

Now now, as a long winded but incredibly fast two finger typer, I enjoy some in depth analysis!

[Noeller]

Need a TLDR version for a lotta this stuff....

[bearpants]

1 hour ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Now now, as a long winded but incredibly fast two finger typer, I enjoy some in depth analysis!

I'm sure there's nothing wrong with it... I just didn't feel like reading two long posts this morning... 

[Goalie]

Why the comparison to Chicago LA and Boston? Because those are the last 3 franchises to win the Stanley Cup. As for the best prospect pool in the league... that's certainly debatable. Who do we have exactly? Connor? Helle? Petan? Who else exactly. Morrissey?  What makes them better than Torontos group of Nylander Marner Timishov etc or look at Buffalo... they have a franchise Center in Eichel now... franchise d man in ristolainen.

 

Every team has prospects.. some less than others but all teams do. Are our guys better because...?? Why exactly. Cuz we are jets fans? 

Edited February 18, 2016 by Goalie

[New_Earth_Mud]

4 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Why the comparison to Chicago LA and Boston? Because those are the last 3 franchises to win the Stanley Cup. 

Thats fine... And my point still is how long did it take them to get to the position? All took 6 - 8 seasons.

Asking and comparing us to them is not a sound argument IMO. They went thou the same things we are now.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

15 hours ago, Atomic said:

How many teams actually have that kind of "franchise centre"?  LA, Chi, Pitt, Dallas... anyone else?  Tough to come by players of that calibre.  Even picking first overall doesn't guarantee that.

Do you need a franchise centre or a two guys who can pot 30+ a year? I've come to believe its just the latter.

4 hours ago, bearpants said:

Can somebody summarize those Goalie posts in a few sentences? thanks...

Crazy, bat-ship ramblings with a dash of common sense

Edited February 18, 2016 by FrostyWinnipeg

[Jimmy Pop]

1 hour ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

Do you need a franchise centre or a two guys who can pot 30+ a year? I've come to believe its just the latter.

Crazy, bat-ship ramblings with a dash of common sense

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