Star Trek

[The Unknown Poster]

Some interesting developments in the franchise with a new film out in July and a new series out in January.

The Movies thread inspired me to whine about why the new films sucks...but I got long winded so thought I'd start my own thread. 

Here's why Star Trek 2009 disappointed me:

I liked the 09 films as sort of a jumping off point.  STID was awful and made 09 worse because whereas I was cautiously optimistic after 09, STID drove that expectations into the ground and you can go back and see the issues in 09 were not just minor, they were inherent with these film makers.  Orci points out, rightfully so, that the writers strike hit when filming on 09 began so they couldnt make changes.  But that doesnt explain why STID was worse.

The idea of doing the Prequel/Sequel thing was to connect it to the original to capture those fans but to free themselves from "canon".  I reject the notion of freeing from canon because to me thats an excuse to be lazy.  Try to maintain canon...makes it harder and more committed as a writer.  But the worst part was they never actually explored this idea of "new" canon.  It was just an excuse to shrug off their errors.  They used canon whenever they could to show their "Trek Cred" and generally screwed it up.  Off the top of my head (havent seen the film for awhile), my issues:

- All of Nero's backstory was revealed outside of the film.  You had to read the comics to understand how a mining ship became so weaponized.  That's bunk.  Further, Nero's motivation was silly.  His wife died.  That wasn't Spock's fault.  If we accept that Nero snapped and irrationally blamed Spock, okay, I can accept that, but everyone on his ship also snapped?  No one talked any sense into him?  And if your family and all your people die, isnt the best thing that could happen, next to undoing that, be to suddenly be thrown back in time to a place where they all exist?  Even if its years before HIS wife would be around, he can go "home", warn his people etc.  He does none of this.  It's simply an irrational hatred of Spock.  Why?  Because it serves the plot, not reality.

- The Kelvin scenes were the best in the entire new Trek film series.  A perfect example of taking technology that is supposed to pre-date The Original Series from the 60's and using modern SFX without making a mockery of accepted "canon".  I thought the ship looked and felt like a gritty pre-Kirk vessel.  The uniforms were a perfect mix between Enterprise and TOS.  Very well done.  But why was Kirk's mother on this ship in her advanced pregnancy stage?  The Kelvin was in pretty deep space near the Klingon border (a subplot was cut that after Nero's ship was hurt by the Kelvin, Klingons captured it and the crew) and yet a very pregnant Winona Kirk was on board.  Okay, let's assume that either she got knocked up while on a deep space assignment so they werent going to turn the ship around just for her.  Somewhat irresponsible of her and George.  Or we can accept that medical tech was advanced enough that Starfleet didnt think twice about deep space births.  Except, in The Voyage Home, Kirk reveals he was born "in Iowa", not on a ship.  Star Trek canon was the same in both universes up until Nero arrived.  This is a major violation.  I can live with it because it was dramatic...but still, its the first indication that the rational for creating a new Universe didnt matter.

- Kirk as a wild, disobedient kid.  I disliked this because it's such a cliche.  ofcourse he lacked disciplined...uh huh.  There are now different influences on him since his father died but I just thought this was too obvious of a plot point.  Ill come back to this.

- Spock as a child.  They played this correctly but got Sarek wrong.  Missed a golden opportunity actually.  Ill come back to this.

- Chekov shouldnt even have existed.  In the timeline this was taking place (too lazy to get dates right now), the crew is basically coming together several years before they would in the "prime" universe.  Chekov should have been a kid.  There was no reason to include him.   I liked him, but again, it spoke to the writers' lack of concern for Star Trek.  Keeping Chekov out of it until the second or third film would have served the series better.

- Changing the Enterprise.  In The Search for Spock, when Kirk blows up the Enterprise, it's legitimately a major development.  Fans were upset.  The ship was played as a sort of cast member in the original.  Here, the ship is almost unrecognizable.  The "excuse" is that Nero's arrival with advanced technology caused StarFleet to develop a bigger, better Enterprise.  But it changed the dynamic of the ship from an old car that everyone thinks is junk but it still always get you where you need to go and back home again.  It had no character.  It was much too big and flashy.  The Bridge was awful.

- The whole scenario that brought Kirk into Starfleet was laughable.  Even if we just accept that they decided to build a new ship in the middle of Iowa for some reason, why were Starfleet personnel and cadets (some new, some already established) hanging out in a bar in the middle of Iowa, and supposedly on their way to Star Fleet in San Fran?  Made no sense.  But it was done to push the story forward.  Thank goodness Pike walked in when he did and had that great speech ready to go.  Had he not walked in, had Kirk not been there, had there not been a fight, then Kirk never joins Star Fleet even though Pike is apparently stalking Kirk...but never thought to go visit him and have this talk with him previously?  The story relies on these incredible coincidences to keep happening.  Ill come back to this too...

- The Kobiashi Maru test.  This one really bugged me.  The Wrath of Khan established this "No Win Scenario" test for cadets in the command path and it became a pretty neat little thing in Star Trek lore.  In WoK, Kirk explains he took the test three times, presumably trying two different scenarios in the first two attempts and failing, since the test was designed to always fail.  He re-programmed the test so he could win the third try and received a commendation.  This set up the statement "I dont believe in the no win scenario" and the idea that Kirk had never truly faced death because he was always able to overcome any situation.  It was an insight into the character.  In the film, he does the same thing except he makes a mockery of the test.  While it was never said in WoK, I think it was implied that he re-programmed the test so that it could be beat through ingenuity and effort, not any idiot would win because it was now impossible to lose.  I wanted to see a Kirk on the edge of his seat barking commands and dramatically overcoming the no win scenario.  This was a joke.  It made Kirk into a joke.  And ofcourse, he is about to be court Martialed, not given a commendation.

- Spock is played way too emotional throughout the film.  They wanted to let Quinto act...blah blah blah.  I didnt like Quinto in the first film at all.  Bad writing and bad directing.  The one time he is stoic in the face of adversity is when Vulcan is destroyed and his mother killed.  And then in STID, he's weeping like a baby over the death of a guy he knows only as a co-worker and barely a friend.

- Spock Prime.  The whole scenario where they meet him is ridiculous.  Spock ejects Kirk from the ship.  This is basically attempted murder.  Its not reasonable.  But they do it because they have to move the story along.  Kirk crashes, just coincidentally close to Spock.  But ofcourse we need a monster chase scene.  Thank goodness Kirk got away from the monster or Kirk is dead.  Spock is just chillin in a cave, even though he knows there's a Star Fleet out post nearby and a mad man with advanced technology and knowledge of the future on the loose.  Spock explains the whole plot to Kirk in such an anvil-over-the-head way that they might as well have had the film pause and JJ Abrams appear on screen to explain it himself.  Not to mention the fact Nero is so insane that he doesnt hurt or kill Spock, he ditches him on a planet where there is a Star Fleet out post to apparently witness the destruction of Vulcan which somehow shares an orbit with this same planet but is uneffected by the destruction of Vulcan and creation of a black hole.  Not to mention, Scotty, seems unaware this happened even though he's manning the outpost and a planet just blew up outside.

- Spock basically shrugs off the idea he's giving Scotty advanced technology.  Okay, hes fighting fire with fire and hes too old to really give a damn.  I can accept that.  But Kirk has to initiate a fight with Spock Quinto, dont tell him the truth, at all costs.  Even though Spock Prime ends up telling him later.  Sarek is the only one who can control Spock.  I like this...Sarek then gives Spock a speech about loving his mother yadda yadda yadda.  I like that.  But because Sarek is mis-played earlier, this scene lacks the emotional depth it should.  In TOS, Sarek and Spock were estranged because Spock rejected the Vulcan Science Academy in favour of Star Fleet.  Even though Sarek married a human he rejects Spock's human half.  In this film, he gives young Spock a pep talk about choosing his own path, even though thats exactly what Sarek doesnt want to happen.  Makes no sense.

- Spock gives up control of the ship.  Even though he believes Kirk is wrong, he seemingly doesnt care.  He completely brushes off his responsibility to the ship and Star Fleet and ignores the final order Pike gave him.  And now Kirk is in command.  Lucky us.  Good thing that happened and good thing Sulu was there to witness it.

- When Pike is being tortured by Nero (I cant even remember why), Nero uses an ear slug that is eerily similar to the one in Wrath of Khan.  But they call it something else.  Why?  I dont know.  Pike even tells Nero that Romulus is fine.  Nero doesnt care.  Okay, maybe he's nuts.  But so is his whole crew?  And hey, where are the Klingons?  If we read the comic (and you pretty much had to to make sense of this plot), Nero broke out of Rura Pente, the Klingon prison, and stole back his ship (which begs the question, why didnt the Klingons tear the ship apart in an effort to reverse engineer it?).  You'd think the Klingons would be hot on Nero's trail.  Oh well.

- Kirk saves the day after a fight through the ridiculously designed Rumulan ship where one wrong move and you'd fall to your death.  Nero's ship is being pulled into a black hole and Kirk does the humane thing and offers to help.  But we need to show Spock has a sense of humor and take this inopportune moment to make a joke while also showing that Spock is vengeful and wants Nero and all his people to die.  Meanwhile,, the Enterprise is also being pulled into this black hole and has to eject the warp core to escape...at warp...even though they ejected the core.  Not to mention the fact that the last time Nero was pulled through a black hole he simply ended up in the past...so why does no one think the same thing happened?  Nero might be roaming around the middle ages or something!

- Pike is in a wheel chair to wink at his fate in TOS but this never pays off anywhere and he's fine in STID.  Kirk gets promoted to Captain from Cadet in the most ridiculous scene in the entire series.  Remember he was about to be court martialed but not he's Captain.  Oh and good news, the whole crew is back together.  LAME!

- Spock Prime is just wandering around Star Fleet.  He should be the most wanted man in the universe since he knows EVERYTHING.  But nope, just chillin.  Does he feel no obligation to warn Star Fleet of impending disasters?  What about when the Klingon moon explodes (oh wait, for some reason that happens way earlier in this universe as shown in STID).  Did he warn the Romulans about the super nova that would eventually destroy their planet?  Did he tell Kirk not to get on the Enterprise B or better yet, tell Star Fleet to make sure the Enterprise B has a tractor beam?

Here's what should have happened.  The Kelvin should have been the original Enterprise as we know it, captained by Robert April.  This would be a nice nod to the franchise.  Blow it up as we did, which immediately tells us this film is different and history has changed.  Kirk should not be a wild child, but a thoughtful genius (Pike said he was) who longs to follow in his father's footsteps but feels an obligation to his mother who fears space now.  Pike keeps visiting and encouraging Kirk to the anger of his mother and finally Pike convinces Winona who gives her consent and Kirk is on his way.

If the Kelvin is the Enterprise this provides a reason for the new Enterprise to be build in hero George Kirk's hometown and gives James a shadow to try and escape from.  it provides more sense of destiny when he's gazing at the ship.  Play the Kobiashi Maru for drama, not laughs.  Get rid of Chekov.  At the end, have the crew going their separate ways with the tease of hey maybe we'll see each other again one day...(ohhh foreshadowing).  Have Kirk get his commendation for original thinking for beating the test and be promoted to Lieutenant and assigned to the Farragut (as he was in TOS). 

There you have it...lol  should we dissect STID now?

[Taynted_Fayth]

I just watched the 2009 trek and STID the other day,  Nero didnt just lose his preggo wife,  romulus was destroyed by a star exploding,  and i think spock was supposed to go stop it with that red matter that nero eventually gets his hands on.  It would make sense for nero to go back and try and stop the supernova himself having obtained red matter himself,  but I thought Romulans, while related to Vulcans are like their opposite fueled by emotion and passion instead of logic and reason, so might explain his rash decision to destroy Vulcan

 

maybe he felt after he destroyed vulcan to let off some steam, he would then go and save romulus but Kirk and co kicked his ass

Edited February 18, 2016 by Taynted_Fayth

[Logan007]

I agree with you on all points.  Good write up.

[Taynted_Fayth]

I think your trying to hard in making 2009 star trek identical to the old show and movies.  all in all I think they did a pretty decent job at least referencing a lot of the old stuff while "trying" to breathe some new life into the franchise in its own way.  I dont think any reboot with a whole new cast and writers/directors will please every die hard to the letter,  but stuff like Spocks emotional outbursts is pretty easily understandable, in what they were trying to do.  

As i wasnt a trekkie, other then "talked about" events of the crews past prior to the start of the show was there ever any actual on screen performances of these events? or was this the first ever adaptation of Pre-TOS days?

[bb.king]

I always thought that a logical plot for a sequel to the first Star Trek, given how it ended, would have been as follows: a well-respected, decorated Star Fleet captain, who worked their up through the ranks becoming captain of several other vessels and demonstrating their command abilities, and should have been first in line to become captain of the Star Fleet flagship when Pike moves on, becomes disillusioned and enraged when a mere cadet is promoted to captain of the Enterprise ahead of him (or her). They then embark on a personal vendetta against Kirk and Star Fleet.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

4 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

- When Pike is being tortured by Nero (I cant even remember why), Nero uses an ear slug that is eerily similar to the one in Wrath of Khan.  But they call it something else.  Why?  I dont know.  Pike even tells Nero that Romulus is fine.  Nero doesnt care.  Okay, maybe he's nuts.  But so is his whole crew?  And hey, where are the Klingons?  If we read the comic (and you pretty much had to to make sense of this plot), Nero broke out of Rura Pente, the Klingon prison, and stole back his ship (which begs the question, why didnt the Klingons tear the ship apart in an effort to reverse engineer it?).  You'd think the Klingons would be hot on Nero's trail.  Oh well.

- Not to mention the fact that the last time Nero was pulled through a black hole he simply ended up in the past...so why does no one think the same thing happened?  Nero might be roaming around the middle ages or something!

I'll give you a thumbs up for such a long write up.

I love the first movie myself. Yeah the science of Trek was put in a box and thrown away. Sad but true.

Pike was tortured to get the Earth defense keys or something like that, also the Klingons were hot on Nero's trail. As Uhura explains in this hot(?) scene.

Okay, yeah if the Narada had Borg tech(source: comics?) the Klingons should have stripped it.

As for the black hole thingy I thought it was obvious they were partially in it not outside of it which is why they were ripped apart.

4 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

There you have it...lol  should we dissect STID now?

Edited February 18, 2016 by FrostyWinnipeg

[The Unknown Poster]

3 hours ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

I just watched the 2009 trek and STID the other day,  Nero didnt just lose his preggo wife,  romulus was destroyed by a star exploding,  and i think spock was supposed to go stop it with that red matter that nero eventually gets his hands on.  It would make sense for nero to go back and try and stop the supernova himself having obtained red matter himself,  but I thought Romulans, while related to Vulcans are like their opposite fueled by emotion and passion instead of logic and reason, so might explain his rash decision to destroy Vulcan

 

maybe he felt after he destroyed vulcan to let off some steam, he would then go and save romulus but Kirk and co kicked his ass

Spock had been working towards reunification between Romulans and Vulcans for awhile (he was on Romulas during TNG).  So he had the Vulcan's working on a solution to the SuperNova (the Black Hole created by Red Matter).  Unfortunately  Spock goofed up the time frame and didnt make it in time to save Romulous.  So yeah, Nero was mad, but his anger was not overly logical.

[The Unknown Poster]

15 minutes ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

I'll give you a thumbs up for such a long write up.

I love the first movie myself. Yeah the science of Trek was put in a box and thrown away. Sad but true.

Pike was tortured to get the Earth defense keys or something like that, also the Klingons were hot on Nero's trail. As Uhura explains in this hot(?) scene.

Okay, yeah if the Narada had Borg tech(source: comics?) the Klingons should have stripped it.

As for the black hole thingy I thought it was obvious they were partially in it not outside of it which is why they were ripped apart.

Right, the Earth Defense Codes.  Too bad Vulcan didnt have any of those. 

[FrostyWinnipeg]

3 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Right, the Earth Defense Codes.  Too bad Vulcan didnt have any of those. 

Vulcan had it coming