CFL In St. Louis?

[kelownabomberfan]

14 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Some will tell you if the CFL didnt expand when it did, there would be no CFL right now.

Remember that Vince McMahon offered to buy the entire league! 

Yes the CFL was definitely in dire straits at that time. 

[kelownabomberfan]

6 minutes ago, Jpan85 said:

Kicking game in NFL is boring as hell they should implement a no yards rule. You have these world class athletes and they return one or two balls a game it's beyond dumb founding.

I concur, but it seems to be the biggest rule that Americans just can't seem to understand. 

[Fatty Liver]

2 hours ago, Mr Dee said:

You have to have empathy for the fans of a team that gets 'yanked' out of their home. I can't think of a worse scenario than losing "my" team. And would I have complete frustration with a league that allows this? You betcha. When a league gets so rich and uncaring that they can thumb their noses at a fan base and their city, well, you can have that league. I wouldn't want any part of it.

That is pretty much what the NHL did to the Jets.  Most fans have obviously forgiven them, but there are ex-fans that tuned out the NHL and never watched another game after screwing over Wpg..   I include myself in the second category.

Edited February 22, 2016 by Throw Long Bannatyne

[The Unknown Poster]

5 minutes ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

That is pretty much what the NHL did to the Jets.  Most fans have obviously forgiven them, but there are ex-fans that tuned out the NHL and never watched another game after screwing over Wpg..   I include myself in the second category.

The NHL didnt yank the Jets out of Winnipeg just to fill a spot somewhere else.  if the Jets were a successful franchise with an arena and ownership, then I'd agree.  But they werent.  No one wanted to own the Jets.  A better comparison is the Jets to the Thrashers.  The Jets had fans but no owner or arena.  The Thrashers had an arena but no fans or owners.  You need three (or close to it) to succeed in the NHL.  Bettman has been consistent on this and, emotions aside, he's correct.

The fact is, to build an arena in Winnipeg required at least two seasons of heavy losses and no one wanted to own the team under those conditions.  It was sell/relocate or fold.

[Taynted_Fayth]

Id consider myself an inbetweener, Ill watch the occasional Jets game, but my interest is no where near what it used to be back in the 90's, i used to even buy NHL gear but now i only buy bomber and blue jays stuff.  However it's no coincidence when the Jets folded after 1996 my interest in the bombers jumped about 10 billion %.  It would take some pretty magical stuff on the ice now by the jets to de-throne the bombers with me

[Blueballz]

Bombers because it puts the "C" in Canadian...

[kelownabomberfan]

39 minutes ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

That is pretty much what the NHL did to the Jets.  Most fans have obviously forgiven them, but there are ex-fans that tuned out the NHL and never watched another game after screwing over Wpg..   I include myself in the second category.

You really have a short memory.  The Jets were hemorrhaging money and couldn't sustain a team in Winnipeg in an era pre salary cap and without the current system in place to protect against the low dollar.  They also needed a new building.  There was too much stacked against the Jets at that time.  They had to go or fold, there was no "stay" option.  Remember, Quebec left too, under the same exact circumstances.  St. Louis is not in that same boat as the Jets or Nordiques circa 1996.  Their team left not because they were losing money, but because the owners could make even more money somewhere else.  Greed vs viability.   

[iso_55]

1 hour ago, kelownabomberfan said:

Yes the CFL was definitely in dire straits at that time. 

The only reason that it was done.

[kelownabomberfan]

Just now, iso_55 said:

The only reason that it was done.

and because you had owners like Larry Ryckman and Bruce McNall.

[Taynted_Fayth]

just realized i was 14 when the jets v.1 died in 96, ive been a die hard bomber fan since 2001, so 15 years, so ive actually invested more time,money  and passion into the bombers then i have the jets.  and i post on a bomber fan site... take that NHL!

[kelownabomberfan]

I try and spend my sporting dollars on the Bombers vs. the Jets just because the Bombers need it far more than the Jets do. 

[Mr Dee]

1 hour ago, The Unknown Poster said:

The NHL didnt yank the Jets out of Winnipeg just to fill a spot somewhere else.  if the Jets were a successful franchise with an arena and ownership, then I'd agree.  But they werent.  No one wanted to own the Jets.  A better comparison is the Jets to the Thrashers.  The Jets had fans but no owner or arena.  The Thrashers had an arena but no fans or owners.  You need three (or close to it) to succeed in the NHL.  Bettman has been consistent on this and, emotions aside, he's correct.

The fact is, to build an arena in Winnipeg required at least two seasons of heavy losses and no one wanted to own the team under those conditions.  It was sell/relocate or fold.

I was going to mention the Jets situation, way back when, but I didn't feel it was an apt comparison..for the very reasons you mentioned. Both fan bases lost their teams, but the money involved cannot be compared. If the Jets1.0 had any kind of financial backing, they might have been able to skirt the issues ahead of time. This St. Louis thing should be handled by the very people who make money off this very same team and city...

[WestBattleJones]

On ‎02‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 8:57 AM, Logan007 said:

I wouldn't mind if we opened into smaller markets like ND, SD, etc...  I would love to have more then 9 teams in the league.  The issue, like everyone has already stated, is the ratio.  If you get rid of that ratio, that could possibly hurt lower levels of football for collage, university, CIS, etc...  If there was a way to do it with the ratio, then I'd be all for it.  Although I would never want them to go into a big area like St. Louis.  As others have stated, I don't want to just have a football team in there for a few years just to have NFL steamroll it's way back in and take over.  I'd like to keep it in smaller markets.  You'd have to have some very smart executives that could convince the US to allow that kind of thing into their country.  I'm sure it's not impossible, but the likelihood is a very low percentage that they'd be able to make something work.

I used to think this as well but after talking to many people in Grand Forks they really have no idea about the CFL.  Weston Dressler was on Hustler and Lawless a couple weeks ago after he signed and they asked him what he knew about the CFL growing up and he said he knew absolutely nothing.  Here was a football kid that grew up 2 hours south and played college ball at UND who was made for the CFL and he barely heard of it.  With as much contact Winnipeggers have in GF (shopping trips, kids playing hockey at UND, business ventures, friends, etc) and they still have no interest or knowledge in the CFL... it won't work anywhere

[Fan Boy]

57 minutes ago, WestBattleJones said:

I used to think this as well but after talking to many people in Grand Forks they really have no idea about the CFL.  Weston Dressler was on Hustler and Lawless a couple weeks ago after he signed and they asked him what he knew about the CFL growing up and he said he knew absolutely nothing.  Here was a football kid that grew up 2 hours south and played college ball at UND who was made for the CFL and he barely heard of it.  With as much contact Winnipeggers have in GF (shopping trips, kids playing hockey at UND, business ventures, friends, etc) and they still have no interest or knowledge in the CFL... it won't work anywhere

This is totally correct. It has a lot to do with superpower myopia. Americans don't feel the need to look outside of the country for their (sports) entertainment except for the Olympics (if Americans are doing well).  

I know CFL is on ESPN in the US. I was in Michigan last summer and I just lay down on a motel bed cover knowing the Bombers were playing. I was thinking of getting the results if I could get the WIFi going. I turned on the TV and the Bombers were finishing off Montreal.  Oh joy of joys. I wish I had stopped a couple of hours earlier. But I bet I was the only person in that motel watching that game.  

[kelownabomberfan]

I don't think that certain areas of Canada are much different.  I stopped in Chilliwack this summer on my way home from Vancouver to catch the Bombers Lions game at Mr. Mikes.  I asked them if they could put the football game on in the lounge area and they put on a soccer game.  I said No, the LIONS football game, and they looked at me like I was from Mars.  I am in BC, only an hour out of Vancouver, and no one in the entire serving staff had heard of the Lions CFL team.  So I had to take the controller, change the channel to TSN, and show them what a LIONS football game looked like.  And then I had to tell a table full of old coots to shut up because they were mad that ONE single TV in the lounge with 10 TV's wasn't on the Blue Jays.  Argh there is a lot of truth to the phrase "BC sucks".

Edited February 24, 2016 by kelownabomberfan

[Fatty Liver]

1 hour ago, WestBattleJones said:

I used to think this as well but after talking to many people in Grand Forks they really have no idea about the CFL.  Weston Dressler was on Hustler and Lawless a couple weeks ago after he signed and they asked him what he knew about the CFL growing up and he said he knew absolutely nothing.  Here was a football kid that grew up 2 hours south and played college ball at UND who was made for the CFL and he barely heard of it.  With as much contact Winnipeggers have in GF (shopping trips, kids playing hockey at UND, business ventures, friends, etc) and they still have no interest or knowledge in the CFL... it won't work anywhere

This is very true, the US is an incredibly insular country and they don't pay much attention to anything going on outside of their own borders.  In America ignorance is bliss.  I lived there for 4 years while going to University and recall watching CNN track the path of a huge hurricane over 2-3 days.  Once the hurricane turned South over the Gulf of Mexico and made landfall in Mexico the tracking dropped off the map completely and the coverage dropped like the hurricane never even existed.  Never heard a peep about what happened to those poor Mexicans in their straw and mud houses.

[mbrg]

On 2/22/2016 at 11:58 AM, The Unknown Poster said:

Not sure if this was mentioned yet and ofcourse I know nothing about US labor laws but technically drafts should be illegal but are allowed under US Anti-Trade laws because they are fairly negotiated within Collection Bargaining Agreements by labor lawyers.

I wonder if the Ratio would be insurmountable in that regard of it it could be negotiated. 

Here's the thing, if there were 2 or 3 (or more) US markets that would be positive  contributors to the CFL and played in front of large enthusiastic fans and accepted the rules of the CFL, would anyone still object?  Im wondering its its an objection based on the idea it wont work and would hurt the league or the idea that it's a "Canadian" game and should remain as such?

Expansion into the US may not be a good idea, but some people are just listing the obstacles faced last time and saying it can't be done to avoid evaluating the idea.  Obstacles can be overcome.  The rules of the league are the rules of the league.  Take it or leave it.  Currency can be "exchanged" at market rates on an agreed upon date to create a US funds payroll equivalent to the cap.  Find a local senator to advocate for a league specific labour exemption (once the election is over).  It is by far the biggest obstacle, and the only real one, but if someone with pull cares enough to make it happen, it might happen.  It likely wouldn't stand up to a court challenge, but that will only happen if there's someone who thinks they should challenge it.

It still might be a lousy idea, but far more important than obsessing over the challenges is finding a reason why to do it.  Is there a great city with a decent stadium, an owner who gets it and fans who will embrace it?  Fans who will embrace the CFL is entirely different than people who love football.  If we can find a place like that, then their might be a reason to do it.  I have no idea if St. Louis is that kind of place, but it would take more than a cobbled together website to convince me.

[Taynted_Fayth]

some people in ND might not be familiar with the CFL but it'd be unlikely most are.  One major factor would be why would they care up until this point. I dont believe people start off as die hards,  but having a product in your back yard to warm up to is the first step to attracting future fans, unless your kind of brought up to like it due to your environment (friends, family).  

I wouldnt want to just start up a team somewhere though without the due diligence of gauging public interest in such a venture,  but im sure any prospective owner would make sure that their ducks would be in a row first.

Does anyone remember why the other 6 franchises not named the stallions got poor turn out in attendance?  did they not do any kind of public interest inquiries before hand to see if it would float?

[kelownabomberfan]

1 hour ago, mbrg said:

Expansion into the US may not be a good idea, but some people are just listing the obstacles faced last time and saying it can't be done to avoid evaluating the idea.  Obstacles can be overcome.  The rules of the league are the rules of the league.  Take it or leave it.  Currency can be "exchanged" at market rates on an agreed upon date to create a US funds payroll equivalent to the cap.  Find a local senator to advocate for a league specific labour exemption (once the election is over).  It is by far the biggest obstacle, and the only real one, but if someone with pull cares enough to make it happen, it might happen.  It likely wouldn't stand up to a court challenge, but that will only happen if there's someone who thinks they should challenge it.

It still might be a lousy idea, but far more important than obsessing over the challenges is finding a reason why to do it.  Is there a great city with a decent stadium, an owner who gets it and fans who will embrace it?  Fans who will embrace the CFL is entirely different than people who love football.  If we can find a place like that, then their might be a reason to do it.  I have no idea if St. Louis is that kind of place, but it would take more than a cobbled together website to convince me.

my minds not totally closed to the idea, but I think the issue for a lot of us was the ignorance of the post that started all of this.  To even suggest playing by NFL rules while in the US just kind of killed it for me.

That being said, if they can work around the issues like the ratio and the salary cap, have at er.  Put a team in St. Louis.  At $20 USD a ticket, if they can get 30,000 fans to show up that's still a good pay day, especially when converted to Canadian.  And who knows what having a US team in the league might do for ESPN's ratings. 

Edited February 24, 2016 by kelownabomberfan

[DR. CFL]

You cannot legislate Canadian player content on U.S. Based teams,. That is simply due to labour laws in the States.  That and the exchange rate are the two top reasons for not trying US expansion. Never mind the apathy that exists in B.C. and Toronto towards the CFL. The true test will be if the Argos playing at BMO actually "sells" more tickets. No doubt they can afford to paper the stands in Toronto for awhile to see if that revitalizes a franshise that is pivotal to the TSN contract.

[iso_55]

I love when people here say that these obstacles "can be overcome". Like how? Telling US Immigration to go shove it as we (CFL) plays 7 Canadian starters so step aside? Or to ignore the low dollar? The only way to solve the obstacle of the ratio is to eliminate it. Is it worth it for a single CFL team with a sketchy future? Don't think so.

[tacklewasher]

Do people really think the CFL will succeed against even US College football?

Besdies, do you remember trying to squeeze our field size into the stadiums down there?

This is a bad idea. Tried once and failed miserably for the same reasons it would fail again. Hell, you'd have better luck bringing a team to the Okanagan. At least KBF and I would show up.

[mbrg]

2 hours ago, iso_55 said:

I love when people here say that these obstacles "can be overcome". Like how? Telling US Immigration to go shove it as we (CFL) plays 7 Canadian starters so step aside? Or to ignore the low dollar? The only way to solve the obstacle of the ratio is to eliminate it. Is it worth it for a single CFL team with a sketchy future? Don't think so.

There will be 250 to 300 import players with CFL contracts playing in the league this season who will somehow manage to "ignore the low dollar".

What's the cap this year?  $5.1M, somewhere around there?  Exchange rate is around .73-ish (haven't looked lately)?  So the cap for a US team in 2016 is $3.7M USD.  That's your cap  Mr. US owner.  Work with it.

I don't think it's a particularly good idea, I'm just not going to pretend that the reason it shouldn't be done is because it "can't be done".

[mbrg]

3 hours ago, kelownabomberfan said:

my minds not totally closed to the idea, but I think the issue for a lot of us was the ignorance of the post that started all of this.  To even suggest playing by NFL rules while in the US just kind of killed it for me.

That being said, if they can work around the issues like the ratio and the salary cap, have at er.  Put a team in St. Louis.  At $20 USD a ticket, if they can get 30,000 fans to show up that's still a good pay day, especially when converted to Canadian.  And who knows what having a US team in the league might do for ESPN's ratings. 

Yes, it really missed the mark when it comes to knowing your audience.

I doubt they would ever make a ratio concession in the US, but the only thing that has ever had any traction at all in those discussions is the world of professional sports.  It's not up to us to change their labour laws.  If there are groups of owners down there who want some sweet sweet CFL action, let them fight that battle.  Give us a call when it's taken care of.

They will also be required to spell "labour" with the proper Queen's English spelling when they make that change.

[mbrg]

3 hours ago, kelownabomberfan said:

Put a team in St. Louis.  

And St. Louis is just trying to get some football revenge sex against the NFL.