CFL In St. Louis?

[saskbluefan]

16 minutes ago, iso_55 said:

Saskatoon is growing rapidly. I think a team in that city in another 10 years would be viable. Especially if oil rebounds. I have talked to others who live in Saskatoon & they say the Riders aren't that big a deal there. They said that people support the Riders but not with their wallets for season tickets. Distance, the time & money for gas that it takes to travel to Regina there & back as well as weather affect people in Saskatoon from buying season tickets for the Riders to go to games. Yet football is ingrained in Saskatoon with the Huskies. I think the Riders would do fine if Saskatoon had a team. There'd be enough fans for both teams.

 

Your friend is right that people that live 2.5 hours from the venue are less likely to attend an event than people who live within 25 minutes.  And they are particularly less likely to pre-commit to attending 10 such events.  But believe me when I say Highway 11 is a busy busy place on Rider game days. 

The Riders are without question the most dominant, best ingrained, most passionately supported brand in Saskatoon.  I can't disagree with you more strongly that "they aren't that big a deal there."  As far as devotion to the team there is no difference between Regina and Saskatoon or Regina and PA or Regina and North Battleford.  There might be less people able to attend the games but there aren't any less people wearing green and trash talking Winnipeggers.

To suggest they would flick a switch and abandon their life long favourite team and their parent's favourite team and their parent's parent's favourite team one day and furtermore have a rivalry with that team is just not happening. 

Ultimately this issue will never be settled because their will never be a CFL team in Saskatoon.  At least not unless some crazy **** goes down like all the Eastern teams fold and the league becomes a smaller western only operation.  Ask yourself why that is?

It's fine for you in Calgary or me in Winnipeg to say this is what Saskatoon should want or should do.  But they don't want that.  And there has never been any semi-serious discussion amongst Saskatoon's political or business leadership about bringing a CFL team to Saskatoon.  In their view they already have one. 

[LeBird]

1 hour ago, bearpants said:

Yeah you could be right... the Huskies/Rams rivalry seems pretty good... I don't think it would take much to get Saskatoon to hate Regina... if they don't already... I'm not sure what the football fanship is in places like Prince Albert, North Battleford and Llyodminster, but those places might draw some in too... 

I think Regina needs the fans all the way up to Saskatoon. With a new stadium they will need to fill it and when you think about it Winnipeg has more people as Regina and Saskatoon put together.  You might say they have better fans but only if the team is winning.

Sorry Saskbluefan, wrote the post while you were posting yours. Makes mine redundant.

Edited February 25, 2016 by LeBird

[Taynted_Fayth]

what kind of initial reaction was there with the Nordiques coming into the NHL in what i would have to assume was a thick Habs nation?  Ottawa into a heavy Leafs market?

I dont argue that alot of sask.,  or even most of Sask are Priders, but I bet you'd get a fair share of excitement behind a new franchise some people would easily embrace as their own immediately (maybe just to say they were fans since day 1). it would be interesting to see a serious poll results if one was ever done across the province. I think you might be surprised

Edited February 25, 2016 by Taynted_Fayth

[AtlanticRiderFan]

It's thanks to the Saskatoon people that games sell out, even if the vast majority are from Regina. The organization has maintained that they rely on the entire province for support and that they couldn't operate the team solely on Regina support. If you were to put a team in Saskatoon, you run of risk of sinking both teams, and potentially leaving the province with no teams. I can see it happening a few decades from now once the two cities have both grown more, but definitely not any time soon if ever.

Saskbluefan is exactly right about Saskatoon. The Riders are by far the most popular team in that city. Everywhere you go, you see fans wearing gear. There's Rider merchandise everywhere. You always hear about that team there. I remember coming home from a friend's house after watching the Grey Cup in 2007, and there were even cars honking their horns. They're rabid.

 I could honestly see fans bucking against a Saskatoon team if one were to come, whether it would be boycotts or fans remaining firmly with Regina, or whatever. If it happens, it would be a big gamble.

[saskbluefan]

5 minutes ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

what kind of initial reaction was there with the Nordiques coming into the NHL in what i would have to assume was a thick Habs nation?  Ottawa into a heavy Leafs market?

When I was trying to formulate my response to this idea I tried to think of other examples of this type of thing happening in pro sports.  The Nordiques is all I could come up with.  In the end the truth is I don't understand Quebecois at the best of times so who knows?  But I do understand people in Saskatoon and I'm telling you this wouldn't work.  Or even happen.

It might also be instructive to remember the Nords existed in another league for 8 years building a fan base before they entered the NHL. 

[AtlanticRiderFan]

Those markets are also WAY bigger. We're talking markets with millions of people compared to markets with a couple hundred thousand people. It would be a lot easier to find fans willing to convert in regions like Southern Ontario and Quebec than somewhere with a smaller population like Saskatchewan.

[Taynted_Fayth]

theres enough ppl in both places and surrounding areas to fill 30K in attendance. I have no doubt people on waiting lists for rider seasons would opt to buy some Saskatoon Berry  season tickets just to watch some football, even more so when it's Rider vs the Berries.  It's like when the Jets Play the NY Islanders and you suddenly see that one dude strutting around in a Devils Jersey,  some people just wanna attend games, and it's much easier to do it in your own back yard, as well as might make people reconsider where they invest their $

Edited February 25, 2016 by Taynted_Fayth

[Tehedra]

I was catching on to the labour laws and immigration laws and thought everyone must be right, it just can't be done.  I really was against having a team in the states anyways as to me it is Canadian Football League which makes me slightly biased about having the teams in Canada.  Now that being said, you can't impose them hiring only Americans to play in the states, but could you not still impose the rule that the games in Canada must be played by 7 Canadians?  It would mean for them to compete in Canada they would still want the Canadians on their roster.  The ratio limit would be removed in St Louis but they would still need to roster the same amount of Canadians as the other teams anyways for the road games.  Either that or they forfeit road games.  For the team to be successful they would then hire Canadians not because the Ratio requires it but because the foreign legal requirements require it. 

I'm sure it could be argued in court and would work. 

[Bigblue204]

but then they would still have 50% of their games were they technically could have an advantage over their opponents. That's significant enough not to do it.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Bigblue204

[Tehedra]

18 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

but then they would still have 50% of their games were they technically could have an advantage over their opponents. That's significant enough not to do it.

Well how would they have the advantage?  By weakening their Canadian product for 50% of their games to have a stronger American product for the other 50%?  There is still a limit of the total number of players, and you could still have Salaries in Canadian dollars even if you are paying in US funds.  You just calculate their salary per game in CAD, then at the time of payment do the conversion from Canadian dollars to US dollars.  The company I work act actually has contracts negotiated in CAD dollars but pay out in US funds.  Most financial systems can do the conversion on the spot.

[Taynted_Fayth]

well 8 games more then other teams as each team would play once at their american home with same ratio rules, but in retrospect if the 9 visiting teams all play same ratio,  thats not really an advantage for them

[Tehedra]

I guess that is true Taynted, they would need less Canadian Backups in case of injury and could focus on having more American starters but they would still need the Canadian starters for the games played on Canadian Soil.  It's a slight advantage but I'm sure with even more investigation even something could be figured out to weaken that advantage.  An example being that the league could create a median salary differential that proves that it costs X dollars more for having the Canadians and back-up and then give the Canadian teams more cap room based on the differential cost but I really would not want to get into something that complex or complicated in the league and then you would be treading water for labour laws and what not.  I'm just suggesting that if there was an owner with money who truly wanted a CFL team in St Louis lots could be done to avoid changing the game, and to ensure competitiveness across the league without reducing the true ratio by creating other rules that would take away advantages of not using Canadians.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Tehedra

[iso_55]

4 hours ago, AtlanticRiderFan said:

It's thanks to the Saskatoon people that games sell out, even if the vast majority are from Regina. The organization has maintained that they rely on the entire province for support and that they couldn't operate the team solely on Regina support. If you were to put a team in Saskatoon, you run of risk of sinking both teams, and potentially leaving the province with no teams. I can see it happening a few decades from now once the two cities have both grown more, but definitely not any time soon if ever.

Saskbluefan is exactly right about Saskatoon. The Riders are by far the most popular team in that city. Everywhere you go, you see fans wearing gear. There's Rider merchandise everywhere. You always hear about that team there. I remember coming home from a friend's house after watching the Grey Cup in 2007, and there were even cars honking their horns. They're rabid.

 I could honestly see fans bucking against a Saskatoon team if one were to come, whether it would be boycotts or fans remaining firmly with Regina, or whatever. If it happens, it would be a big gamble.

Coming from a Rider fan...  Your fanbase will never give Saskatoon any credit. A team in Saskatoon right now would have a bigger fanbase than Montreal.  Oh & Moncton. A city of 60,000 & fans were all for dropping an actual franchise into that town.

[iso_55]

3 hours ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

well 8 games more then other teams as each team would play once at their american home with same ratio rules, but in retrospect if the 9 visiting teams all play same ratio,  thats not really an advantage for them

You have no clue. Just throwing enough mud against the wall & some will stick.

[Taynted_Fayth]

i dont see what im saying that is illogical.  if the US labour Laws couldnt be applied while in canada, then u can make them play every away game + potential playoffs on canadian soil with the ratio.  while in the US, canadian teams just drop the ratio for that game IF they feel it would level the playing field.  it might surprise you to find a few teams stick with some of the nationals even for those games, but thats their prerogative.

I gets it you dont want the CFL in the US no ways no how, but ive countered your concerns with legit options such as a converted sms (3.7mUSD) that levels the playing field

[kelownabomberfan]

18 minutes ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

i dont see what im saying that is illogical.  if the US labour Laws couldnt be applied while in canada, then u can make them play every away game + potential playoffs on canadian soil with the ratio.  while in the US, canadian teams just drop the ratio for that game IF they feel it would level the playing field.

Time to pull this oldie but goodie out:

[IC Khari]

" A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

[ALuCsRED]

6 hours ago, saskbluefan said:

 

I'm a bit of an expert on the city of Saskatoon.  The Riders mythology is very very ingrained there.  It would be tough to imagine a team competing with the Riders.  To even picture the people I know in Stoon not bein Riders fans is difficult. 

Truthfully, the idea is rarely even discussed there.  Especially since they would need basically a new stadium and they just paid a big portion of the new one in Regina.

Also, consider how that would affect the Riders.  You may have heard they draw on support from the whole province.  Cut that fan base in half and it doesn't work as well. 

The solution is simple.  

Two Teams:

1. Saskatchewan Roughriders (in Regina)

2. Saskatoon Rough Riders (in Saskatoon).

 

[AtlanticRiderFan]

4 hours ago, iso_55 said:

Coming from a Rider fan...  Your fanbase will never give Saskatoon any credit. A team in Saskatoon right now would have a bigger fanbase than Montreal.  Oh & Moncton. A city of 60,000 & fans were all for dropping an actual franchise into that town.

Saskatoon could definitely fill at least 20 000, no questions asked. Whether they could match Regina's support though is less certain.

Living only an hour and a half from Moncton, I'd be stoked if they got a team. I think it's a long shot though. The amount of renos on their stadium would be like building a completely new stadium. The city is a little small, but it's very central. Over million people live within a 2.5 hour drive of Moncton.

2 hours ago, ALuCsRED said:

The solution is simple.  

Two Teams:

1. Saskatchewan Roughriders (in Regina)

2. Saskatoon Rough Riders (in Saskatoon).

 

So one is a province wide team, and one is a more local team, sort of like the Florida Panthers and the Tampa Bay Lightning. I could see some people not converting to Saskatoon if it would be marketed that way. It wouldn't seem near as much like a rivalry that way.

[iso_55]

8 hours ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

i dont see what im saying that is illogical.  if the US labour Laws couldnt be applied while in canada, then u can make them play every away game + potential playoffs on canadian soil with the ratio.  while in the US, canadian teams just drop the ratio for that game IF they feel it would level the playing field.  it might surprise you to find a few teams stick with some of the nationals even for those games, but thats their prerogative.

I gets it you dont want the CFL in the US no ways no how, but ive countered your concerns with legit options such as a converted sms (3.7mUSD) that levels the playing field

No you haven't. None of what you say comes even close to being legit.

[Taynted_Fayth]

instead of just saying no my suggestions wouldn't work to counter the hurdles you say exist, explain how they they wouldn't work.

-Is an american company bound to US labour law while doing business on foreign soil? yes or no.  if no that solves half the problem with the ratio right there.  you can figure out a way to work out the rest.

-does a team operating with a 3.7mUSD have any financial benefit over a canadian team playing with 5.1mCAD?

[SPuDS]

11 minutes ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

instead of just saying no my suggestions wouldn't work to counter the hurdles you say exist, explain how they they wouldn't work.

-Is an american company bound to US labour law while doing business on foreign soil? yes or no.  if no that solves half the problem with the ratio right there.  you can figure out a way to work out the rest.

-does a team operating with a 3.7mUSD have any financial benefit over a canadian team playing with 5.1mCAD?

Yes..  Every american in the league is going to want to play for USD and i doubt any of the cfl or its canadian teams would want to switch to it as the main form of currency.. Especially now..

[iso_55]

17 minutes ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

instead of just saying no my suggestions wouldn't work to counter the hurdles you say exist, explain how they they wouldn't work.

-Is an american company bound to US labour law while doing business on foreign soil? yes or no.  if no that solves half the problem with the ratio right there.  you can figure out a way to work out the rest.

-does a team operating with a 3.7mUSD have any financial benefit over a canadian team playing with 5.1mCAD?

I said it wouldn't work now & didn't work in the 90's because of the exchange & ratio. Nothing has changed on those two fronts in 20 years. I don't know how many times I need to say it.

Edited February 26, 2016 by iso_55

[Guest J5V]

16 hours ago, iso_55 said:

PA, Lloyd & NB are a long drive to games especially in November with cold & snow when the playoffs... ah forget that.  

Everywhere's a long drive from Saskatoon and the last time I was there it was -52. That's cold, and I'm from Winnipeg. Brrr

[Logan007]

We should just have a North American currency and that way all money is even steven.