UFC

[wbbfan]

4 hours ago, bigg jay said:

They've had 2 sub 300k PPV's in the last year.  201 (Woodley vs Lawler) had 240k & 192 (Cormier vs Gustafsson) had 250k.  There was a 3rd (195 Lawler vs Condit) that was right on the 300k mark so the actual numbers could have been less.  The early estimates for 203 are between 650-800k.

If the predictions hold true for the 203 numbers, then I don't think you can deny Punk had a huge affect on that. Even Meltzer says he under estimated the wrestling crowd and that's his business. The problem for the UFC is that it's a one time bump and with Punk's performance, it won't happen again so how do they keep those numbers going?  Outside of Rousey & McGregor, nobody is pulling in those kinds of numbers.

250k-300k isnt an unfair mark then for that card. I wonder how much of the tune in crowd due to punk was wrestling fans, and how much was people wanting to see a freak show fight.

 If not bellator, i bet rizin would take him and feed him soup cans for a while. He wont have that effect as a draw again, but he could still bring in enough for bellator/roidzin as a depth card guy. As a none wrestling fan I hope he goes to the lowest level he can find after training for another year or so in no gi bjj. 

[Atomic]

Just my two cents for some perspective.  I am nowhere near a UFC fan.  The last two UFC's I've watched were Punk and Lesnar.  No way I was missing either one.  Purely as a wrestling fan.  Also, it did not suddenly make me a UFC fan.  I was well aware of UFC before the Punk and Lesnar shows and my opinion didn't change because of them.

[wbbfan]

1 hour ago, Atomic said:

Just my two cents for some perspective.  I am nowhere near a UFC fan.  The last two UFC's I've watched were Punk and Lesnar.  No way I was missing either one.  Purely as a wrestling fan.  Also, it did not suddenly make me a UFC fan.  I was well aware of UFC before the Punk and Lesnar shows and my opinion didn't change because of them.

I think that is the peak of action from wrestling fans. The ones that tune in to see a wrestler, arent going to switch over or provide an over time boost. Especially as the sport evolves and wrestler cross overs do worse. Curious, have you watched bobby lashleys fights, or dave bautistas fight?

I think especially with new ownership the ufc can and should focus on the putting together the best cards with the best fighters. Let bellator and rizin do the freak show stuff. 

[Atomic]

I haven't seen Lashley or Bautista fight, no.  May have happened before I was a wrestling fan (started watching again in 2014-ish)

[The Unknown Poster]

7 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

I think that is the peak of action from wrestling fans. The ones that tune in to see a wrestler, arent going to switch over or provide an over time boost. Especially as the sport evolves and wrestler cross overs do worse. Curious, have you watched bobby lashleys fights, or dave bautistas fight?

I think especially with new ownership the ufc can and should focus on the putting together the best cards with the best fighters. Let bellator and rizin do the freak show stuff. 

Its business.  When Kurt Angle flirted with the idea, Dana told him he'd have to go through TUF.  Did the same with Kimbo.  But in an environment where they have as many shows as they do, with few big time stars, Dana knows sometimes you do what you do because it draws.  He would never have had Punk fight a few years ago.  And if Angle wanted to right tomorrow (and was several years younger), he'd put him on a PPV immediately.  Its business.

But drawing fans from the wrestling community is a proven success.  You can trace UFC's turn around to the success of the TUF which drew and kept a large percent of it's lead-in, which was RAW.  Brock drew a large wrestling audience.  Lashley has been successful in that regard too (not to the same extent as UFC)

[bigg jay]

18 minutes ago, Atomic said:

I haven't seen Lashley or Bautista fight, no.  May have happened before I was a wrestling fan (started watching again in 2014-ish)

Lashley has been fighting since 2008 and has a fight for Bellator next month.  He's fought more than any other name wrestler, I think he's 14-2 now?  Even though he's probably got the best background next to Brock (2 time NAIA national champion) he's just a can crusher.

[Brandon]

23 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

Lashley has been fighting since 2008 and has a fight for Bellator next month.  He's fought more than any other name wrestler, I think he's 14-2 now?  Even though he's probably got the best background next to Brock (2 time NAIA national champion) he's just a can crusher.

In the Heavyweight division you can pull off a record like that.... in any lighter divisions it's near impossible for a guy with no background to get any sort of success.  

[wbbfan]

18 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

Lashley has been fighting since 2008 and has a fight for Bellator next month.  He's fought more than any other name wrestler, I think he's 14-2 now?  Even though he's probably got the best background next to Brock (2 time NAIA national champion) he's just a can crusher.

Yep, i dont think hes fought yet this year but hes pretty active. I think the biggest fight of his career was bob sapp which says it all. Sapp some how is still mailing it in for pay days too. Hasnt won in his last 13 fights. 1 win in his last 17. But once in that losing streak he made it out of the first round so hey thats improvement. 

42 minutes ago, Atomic said:

I haven't seen Lashley or Bautista fight, no.  May have happened before I was a wrestling fan (started watching again in 2014-ish)

Idk if lashley was a name like phil brooks or dave bautista. Bautistas fight was pretty awful too and I think a good while ago. 

 

28 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Its business.  When Kurt Angle flirted with the idea, Dana told him he'd have to go through TUF.  Did the same with Kimbo.  But in an environment where they have as many shows as they do, with few big time stars, Dana knows sometimes you do what you do because it draws.  He would never have had Punk fight a few years ago.  And if Angle wanted to right tomorrow (and was several years younger), he'd put him on a PPV immediately.  Its business.

But drawing fans from the wrestling community is a proven success.  You can trace UFC's turn around to the success of the TUF which drew and kept a large percent of it's lead-in, which was RAW.  Brock drew a large wrestling audience.  Lashley has been successful in that regard too (not to the same extent as UFC)

Kurt angle wouldnt be the kind of issue imop that brooks was. He was an olympic (gold?) medalist in wrestling. Thats usually a fast track in mma. The gold medalist this year said he wants to go to the ufc eventually. If he follows through he will be fast tracked for sure. And no one will bat an eye. If brooks was 145, it wouldnt even have been as big an issue. But WW is a murders row. Easily the deepest and best division in mma, and big enough the guys have true one shot KTFO power. The smaller divisions are much "safer". But what they did with him is like tossing him a baseball letting him start against a healthy blue jays team with low A ball lead off hitter. 

Tuf wouldnt be an issue either. I personally have never watched it. Idk reality tv isnt my thing even based around mma. As the skill gap continues to widen in mma/ufc and grass roots develop we will reach a point where this kind of thing wont be viable. This might be the last time we see it even. The guys at the bottom of most divisions today would be top half 10 years ago. 

6 minutes ago, Brandon said:

In the Heavyweight division you can pull off a record like that.... in any lighter divisions it's near impossible for a guy with no background to get any sort of success.  

Yeah HW is as thin as it gets. a 3rd division for women would probably be stronger in a year or less. With the rarity of big athletes feeder leagues tend to have to dig much deeper. Any guy under 35 and around 250-260 whose mildly athletic or skilled could have a pro fight in a year and a half at most. 

 

[The Unknown Poster]

Dana wouldn't let Angle fight in UFC unless he went through TUF.  It ended up being moot as Angle failed the physical and wasnt *that* keen on it.  But if it was today, Dana would 100% put Angle on a major PPV (providing he passed the physical).  And he'd be a lot more qualified than Punk.

A few years ago, Angle and Brock had a friendly (but reportedly heated) "wrestling" match before TV at a RAW show once.  Basically the boys goaded them into trying to find out who was better.  Angle won (as one might expect in a no striking wrestling match, but it was pretty impressive all the same).

[The Unknown Poster]

From Dave Meltzer regarding Punk's UFC numbers:

The flip side of this is Punk’s debut from a business standpoint based on early evidence looks to be a success. Early indications based off internet PPV numbers are that the show will do something in the range of 450,000 to 460,000 buys (and keep in mind any number based strictly on iPPV buys could be off significantly) for a show that would have probably done about 270,000 without him. Based on a few numbers, coming in at about 70 percent to double that of UFC 201, that would indicate a number in the 425,000 to 475,000 range, but those figures could easily be off this early.

The number greatly exceeded company projections.

So if we estimate it as 180,000 more buys due to him at nearly $30 per head to the promotion, that’s $5.4 million in added revenue, not to mention any other value as far as bar purchases, merchandise, whatever value he brings to other UFC products and the like. When the word came out that he was paid $500,000, a lot of people were shocked and upset. The reality is he would have almost certainly had a cut of the PPV since he was the top draw on the show. While it doesn’t appear the PPV did a monster number, with a PPV cut, you’re probably talking about a few hundred thousand more dollars added on to that purse. And given the revenue he brought to the table and the interest level, right now it looks to have been a bargain for UFC. I was shocked that in 2016 people would complain about what he earned when it was clear he was going to drive some revenue, and $500,000 is only 17,000 extra buys, a number even the most conservative of estimates should have figured he’d blow past.

[wbbfan]

Well BJ penn has his match up at last. Fight night 97 he head lines agains ricardo lamas. RIP bj penn. what an awful match up. 

[bigg jay]

Yeah it was announced a while ago.   Gets the same reaction now as it did then... <insert fart noise>.

BJ should have hung up the gloves a long time ago. 

[Brandon]

I wasn't a big fan of MMA when BJ was young and winning.  I never understood the deep love and the admiration for the guy as if he was the Fedor of the lightweight/welterweight division.   

If they want to bring back BJ Penn ,  they should be feeding him guys he can easily beat.  It's like the Dan Henderson treatment where the guy is clearly washed up and way over the hill... yet they continue to feed him top 10 guys because once in a blue moon he scores a lucky KO.  

[wbbfan]

11 hours ago, bigg jay said:

Yeah it was announced a while ago.   Gets the same reaction now as it did then... <insert fart noise>.

BJ should have hung up the gloves a long time ago. 

should have left em hung up yeah. His last go around was brutal. 

8 hours ago, Brandon said:

I wasn't a big fan of MMA when BJ was young and winning.  I never understood the deep love and the admiration for the guy as if he was the Fedor of the lightweight/welterweight division.   

If they want to bring back BJ Penn ,  they should be feeding him guys he can easily beat.  It's like the Dan Henderson treatment where the guy is clearly washed up and way over the hill... yet they continue to feed him top 10 guys because once in a blue moon he scores a lucky KO.  

I never really got it either. He had some impressive flashes and entertaining fights but i was never a fan of his. Agree you cant expect him to contend at his age. I really dont like seeing the super old guys fight. Its kinda sad and really dangerous. 

[wbbfan]

McG vs alvarez now head lines ufc 205. Mcg really needs to defend that belt, having him fight a champion vs champion bout with out a defense is silly. Pure cash grab by the ufc. 

Aldo is requesting his release from the ufc, dana white has reportedly said no. 

205 is looking good. with joanna J, cerrone gastelum, weidman romero, woodley thompson and the mcg alvarez fight. The prelim is looking really good too. End of the year is gonna be slim at this rate. I really wish they would cut back the number of events and make more solid cards. 

Rumor has it RR wants to accept cyborgs fight at 140. But just a few days ago nunes RR was close to booked. If i was cyborg id start going to the ring with the invicta belt. Or have buffer list her nick name as feather weight champion. 

[sweep the leg]

UFC205 looks like it's going to be a great card. I think McGregor beats Alvarez. IMO, aside from the Dos Anjos fight, he's been just ok in the UFC. He beat Pettis, but he doesn't seem like the same guy who was so good a few years ago. Even against Dos Anjos, I think he just caught him on a bad night.

[wbbfan]

1 hour ago, sweep the leg said:

UFC205 looks like it's going to be a great card. I think McGregor beats Alvarez. IMO, aside from the Dos Anjos fight, he's been just ok in the UFC. He beat Pettis, but he doesn't seem like the same guy who was so good a few years ago. Even against Dos Anjos, I think he just caught him on a bad night.

Yeah I agree with that. Not overly pleased with the idea of them consolidating belts of 2 divisions with 2 guys who have no title defenses. I hope to see a showtime holloway fight in the near future. 

[sweep the leg]

I want to see Pettis and Aldo fight.

[wbbfan]

5 hours ago, sweep the leg said:

I want to see Pettis and Aldo fight.

That would be a good fight. I dont see him leap frogging holloway though. A bunch of good fighters in that division, but not a lot going on thanks to the cash grab fights with mcg.

[wbbfan]

and broken J penn has pulled out due to injury. Ufc looking for a replacemat. 

[bigg jay]

Josh Samman passed away this morning.  He was 3-1 in the UFC after being a semi-finalist on season 17 of the Ultimate Fighter.  He had been in a coma since last week.  He was found unconscious with his room-mate after apparent drug overdoses (his friend was dead before anyone found them).  

Samman had a rough few years (his fiance died while texting him & driving, he battled a heroin addiction amongst other things) but had seemingly turned a corner.

[wbbfan]

On 10/5/2016 at 2:07 PM, bigg jay said:

Josh Samman passed away this morning.  He was 3-1 in the UFC after being a semi-finalist on season 17 of the Ultimate Fighter.  He had been in a coma since last week.  He was found unconscious with his room-mate after apparent drug overdoses (his friend was dead before anyone found them).  

Samman had a rough few years (his fiance died while texting him & driving, he battled a heroin addiction amongst other things) but had seemingly turned a corner.

Yeah its awful sad. Ive never watched tuf but a young bright guy passing and succombing to his demons is a damn shame. 

ufc manilla allegedly cancelled after bj penns pull out. 

[Brandon]

BJ Penn should not be headlining any UFC cards regardless of how small they are...  

[wbbfan]

2 hours ago, Brandon said:

BJ Penn should not be headlining any UFC cards regardless of how small they are...  

Dude shouldnt be fighting any more. Especially not in the ufc. If he and bellator or rizin want some freak show action, or a grandpa division of former champs thats one thing. But the guy does not belong on a ufc card any more and hasnt for a long time. 

[bigg jay]

Former Dallas Cowboy Greg Hardy looking for a new career as a fighter.  I guess you know it's time to hang up the cleats when even the Riders don't want to sign you!

http://www.tsn.ca/report-ex-cowboy-hardy-taking-up-mma-1.583040