UFC

[The Unknown Poster]

2 minutes ago, Brandon said:

But how many 12 year old boys really are going to order UFC ppvs?  

It was a weak attempt to get viewers that clearly wont work.   Its as bad as the James Toney ppv where they dropped a tonne of cash on a washed up has been which in the end didn't even increase the ppv buys.

The only guys who will push the ppv sales will be the guys who have mass appeal...  Kimbo Slice was a good example...

 

So Dana White is stupid?  Also, wrestling's audience is not 12 year old boys.  Punk was a big star.  I find it difficult to believe that Dana hired Punk with zero fight experience just to be a nice guy.  He hired him because Punk has cross over appeal and he thought it would bring in new viewers. Whether it does or not is moot.  That was the intent.

[Brandon]

45 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

So Dana White is stupid?  Also, wrestling's audience is not 12 year old boys.  Punk was a big star.  I find it difficult to believe that Dana hired Punk with zero fight experience just to be a nice guy.  He hired him because Punk has cross over appeal and he thought it would bring in new viewers. Whether it does or not is moot.  That was the intent.

You are correct about the intent. 

And is Dana white stupid....  many people would say yes.

 

 

Edited June 24, 2016 by Brandon

[The Unknown Poster]

8 minutes ago, Brandon said:

You are correct about the intent. 

And is Dana white stupid....  many people would say yes.

 

 

Exactly my point.  They signed Punk at the height of his popularity.  Unfortunately its taken a long time to get him into the octagon.  But Brock's return gives UFC's the right audience to promote Punk to.  If I had to predict, I'd say the deal ends up being an over-all failure because I think Punk will be one and done.  However, should Punk win and continue fighting, then they can continue to make money off him.

If he's one and done, I'd expect WWE to back up a brink's truck to Punk's home in an effort to bring him back, much to Hunter's chagrin. 

[wbbfan]

3 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Brock brought new fans to UFC.  In fact, it's really a little-talked about part of UFC's past that they owe a big thank you to WWE for allowing TUF to follow RAW. 

In the past UFC has been reluctant to sign fighters with star appeal but no credible fighting ability.  But in today's market, they need as many marketable fighters as possible.  And Punk is marketable, has a fan base, knows how to talk and promote.  Will he bring in a ton of viewers?  Probably not.  Will he bring in some?  Certainly.

PPv numbers went up with brock and back to similar with out him. Any fans he brought were temporary or negligible. The ufc needs marketable fighters less now then ever. The sport has developed and shown that developing that is worth while. McG, gsp, RR etc have all done that. They dont need market fighters who cant fight. That just takes away from credibility. 

 

3 hours ago, Brandon said:

Everyone knew Brock Lesnar from just past the attitude era when wrestling was popular.   Not to mention he is a genetic freak and did other things such as trying out for the NFL so he had broad appeal.

CM Punk....  I think he brings as many new fans to MMA as James Toney did.....  a few curious onlookers and nothing more.   The average person has no clue who he is.   I don't think any wrestler going into MMA now for the first time would really make any sort of impact for PPV buys.   WWE doesn't have any young guys who are massively popular outside of wrestling.   

I dont think he will bring as much as toney. At that point people still debated how a top boxer would do. James toney was a world champion and one of the most under rated defensive boxers of all time.  But its not far off. Kimbo type hype might have been possible if punk went viral and pushed social media like kimbo did. But then hes a terrible person to follow for mma prototype. 

I honestly think a good portion of this move is because punk and dana/et al are friends. The rest is the hype. I dont think they expect him to win or do any thing but look bad. The only way he becomes a marketable asset now is if he actually does win and talks mad ****. Becomes a ufc heel. Tons of people tune in hoping to watch guys like chael sonen, bisping, and diaz bro's fight because they cant stand them.

[The Unknown Poster]

UFC needs marketable fighter, dont kid yourself.  They are selling right now based on a high value and the risk they wont be able to sustain it. 

Like WWE, UFC is seeing value in bringing in "draws" for short term increases.  Why are they bringing Brock back?  Because Brock equals money.  Makes sense really.  If they didnt value the short term draw, they would never have paid what its taking to get Brock for one fight and make that deal with WWE.  They didnt sign Punk for any reason other than an attempt to capitalize on his popularity.

[Brandon]

Is CM Punk a marketable fighter now or even back 2 years ago.... not really. 

The Heavyweight division is the easiest division for someone to go from no MMA experience to at least competing and winning fights.   You can get by with pure physical talents at heavyweight.    You have your top ten and then after that it's a whole bunch of absolute garbage.

At welterweight or whatever weight CM Punk ends up fighting at.... their is so much depth in talent that it would be near impossible to give him a push and expect people to get excited for it. 

It's all a one and done kind of deal like James Toney.  

 

[The Unknown Poster]

CM Punk was very marketable two years ago.  There is cross-over appeal between UFC and WWE.  As I said before, UFC owes a big thank you to Vince for allowing TUF on after RAW.  Vince didnt see it as competition and helped grow UFCs audience massively.

As a fighter, Punk wasnt marketable.  As a celebrity and athlete he was.  Given the cross over appeal, UFC made the right call.  It remains to be seen if Punk's name will pop a PPV number or not.  But promoting his debut in front of as many wrestling fans who will be willing to buy UFC (ie. Brock fans) as possible is very smart.  Its their best chance to draw buys from that audience.  And I suspect they will draw some.

Honestly, I rarely every watch UFC.  In the modern age, the only UFC's I've watched (and bought) were Brock's.  And even Im curious to see Punk fight.  Usually traditional MMA fans want to see the wrestlers get beat up.  In Punk's case a lot of wrestling fans want to see him get beat up too!

[sweep the leg]

http://www.mmaweekly.com/dana-white-explains-why-the-ufc-signed-cm-punk-and-its-not-a-good-explanation

 

 

[bigg jay]

Punk's marketability and cross-over appeal is pretty much limited to wrestling fans though and a good number of those fans already watch mma.  He never achieved Hogan or Rocky type cross-over into mainstream media & he has no other athletic achievements to fall back on.  He might move the needle a little bit but it's not going to be record breaking by any stretch of the imagination.

 

Edited June 24, 2016 by bigg jay

[The Unknown Poster]

11 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

Punk's marketability and cross-over appeal is pretty much limited to wrestling fans though and a good number of those fans already watch mma.  He never achieved Hogan or Rocky type cross-over into mainstream media & he has no other athletic achievements to fall back on.  He might move the needle a little bit but it's not going to be record breaking by any stretch of the imagination.

 

I definitely agree that he wont move the needle a lot.  But I wouldnt under-estimate his popularity.  He was a really big star for a period of time.  Sure, not Hogan or Rocky but he has a "cool" factor too.  He's been involved in things like comics as well (Marvel hired him to write a comic that didnt do well if I recall).

Sweep the Leg's link explains it quite well.  And Dana's explanation is really a cover for "we signed a guy as a PR stunt to sell PPV's".  Its like WWE using Mr T.  Sure he has no business in a wrestling ring, but he generated headlines and buys.

[Brandon]

1 hour ago, The Unknown Poster said:

As a fighter, Punk wasnt marketable.  As a celebrity and athlete he was. 

Completely false... he doesn't look like an athlete  and outside of wrestling has he done anything at all to gain headlines?

He is far from being a celeb... nobody outside of wrestling and a few die hard ufc fans have a clue who the hell CM Punk is.  

I could see if Punk was getting regular work on tv shows or movies and had some kind of appeal to people. 

You are vastly over rating CM Punk's popularity. 

Just because someone was over in WWE for a short period of time it doesn't mean that he is/was mainstream and a brand that can be marketed.   Look at Bobby Lashley... no body gives a flying F about his fights and he at least has some freakshow aspect to him with his roided up body.   

 

 

[The Unknown Poster]

8 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Completely false... he doesn't look like an athlete  and outside of wrestling has he done anything at all to gain headlines?

He is far from being a celeb... nobody outside of wrestling and a few die hard ufc fans have a clue who the hell CM Punk is.  

I could see if Punk was getting regular work on tv shows or movies and had some kind of appeal to people. 

You are vastly over rating CM Punk's popularity. 

Just because someone was over in WWE for a short period of time it doesn't mean that he is/was mainstream and a brand that can be marketed.   Look at Bobby Lashley... no body gives a flying F about his fights and he at least has some freakshow aspect to him with his roided up body.   

 

 

Brandon - you dont like wrestling.  Or more accurately you do but dont like to admit it.  So you're coming at this from a biased perspective.

Do you think Dana signed Punk because he likes his haircut?  Maybe he wants to spend time with AJ Lee?  He signed him because of his celebrity within Wrestling.  Period.  Just because you dont consider him a celebrity doesnt mean the several million wrestling fans who watch it every week dont.  The same fans, many of whom are not regular buyers of UFC PPV's but have bought PPV's in the past.

Even Ballator signed Bobby Lashley partially because of his celebrity status within wrestling and hes far less known than Punk.

A guy doesnt have to be THE biggest star in the world to have value.  Its not a comparison between The Rock and everyone else.  There are degrees of celebrity.  Even in the article Sweep linked, it referred to lots of PR the signing got.  Thats free marketing.

Just because you're not a fan doesnt mean others arent.  Punk is going to appeal to other people, just not you.

[The Unknown Poster]

12 minutes ago, Brandon said:

You are vastly over rating CM Punk's popularity. 

 

 

 

Sorry - I re-quoted to make a specific point.  No, I am not.  I've repeatedly said whether Punk makes a difference is yet to be seen.  And I said I thought the signing would be seen as a failure.  But logic tells us that Dana felt Punk would draw.  That's why he signed him.  And Punk was a top guy within a very popular industry that shares fans with UFC. 

You're vastly underating the intent of UFC in this matter.

[Brandon]

I'm not disagreeing with your statement on the intentions of Dana White... some cheap easy publicity and it might get a few eyeballs.

What I'm debating is just how high you place CM Punk's value (even two years ago) and it comes off that he was some kind of superstar with massive drawing power.    CM Punk will just be distant memory in WWE's history.. no one is ever going to suggest he was a legend.    Lashley was back in the day as "known" as CM Punk.... and look at how popular his MMA career is.

Don't use Dana White as some kind of genius... this is the same man who tried to have a boxing match set up between himself and Tito Ortiz.  He also has whiffed and made many many braindead decisions. 

[wbbfan]

On 6/24/2016 at 1:22 PM, The Unknown Poster said:

UFC needs marketable fighter, dont kid yourself.  They are selling right now based on a high value and the risk they wont be able to sustain it. 

Like WWE, UFC is seeing value in bringing in "draws" for short term increases.  Why are they bringing Brock back?  Because Brock equals money.  Makes sense really.  If they didnt value the short term draw, they would never have paid what its taking to get Brock for one fight and make that deal with WWE.  They didnt sign Punk for any reason other than an attempt to capitalize on his popularity.

The ufc has marketable fighters, they started this search at a tough point in PPV sales they are not just throwing it on the market because its going to dip. PPV can be a lot higher then have been and steadily rise not drop. 

Brock is coming back for 1 fight for ufc 200 as they try to make the anniversary events big. If they wanted to just capitalize on popularity they would have picked up Batista when he tried mma or countless other celebs. Or have a legends division. Etc. 

[bigg jay]

 

[FrostyWinnipeg]

Goalie can we retitle this The UFC Thread?

[sweep the leg]

Jon Jones failed a drug test and is out of UFC 200.

Bet Dana White wishes he still had McGregor vs Diaz on this card...

[The Unknown Poster]

Was just coming here to post this. Wow. 

Brock now the main event. Bet his payday goes up too. Crazy. Imagine if they don't have Brock and only relied on Jones fight. Disaster. 

From Observer

During an impromptu press conference Wednesday night, UFC president Dana White announced that Brock Lesnar vs. Mark Hunt is the new main event for UFC 200.

The reason? Interim light heavyweight champion Jon Jones has been flagged by USADA for a potential anti-doping violation. Because the procedure part of this review cannot be completed by Saturday, Jones' fight with light heavyweight champion Daniel Cormier has been taken off the show.

Lesnar vs. Hunt will remain a three round fight. 

White said he was tested in June, but was unclear what the violation was for. He hasn't spoken to Jones or his agent Malki Kawa as of this point.

White said they found out just a short time ago and wanted to alert the media to the annoucement as soon as possible. Matchmaker Joe Silva isn't even aware of the situation as he's on a flight. White's hope would be that someone would step up to fight Cormier on super short notice, but isn't sure what's about to happen.

White said he was unclear how Cormier would be compensated considering the amount of money that he makes.

[Brandon]

Jon Jones is the biggest waste of talent... 

[The Unknown Poster]

More from Dave Meltzer:

Daniel Cormier was said to be far more than distraught after all the preparation he's done for this fight.  Exactly what happens with him will likely be determined early tomorrow.  He's trained very hard but this was a different level of letdown than most late replacement fights.

Among the fighters who have asked to face Cormier on short notice are Gegard Mousasi, Michael Bisping, Ilir Latifi, Zack Cummings and Tom Lawlor.  One would expect many more will also make themselves available first thing in the morning.

From a name standpoint and storyline standpoint, Bisping is the guy to put in.  It would be the first champion vs. champion match since Georges St-Pierre vs. B.J. Penn.  Bisping just beat one of Cormier's best friends.  It's a no-lose situation for Bisping, who would be getting a guy on an emotional roller coaster and he'd still be middleweight champion with a loss, but be part of one of the biggest shows in history. This would also salvage the show as much as any replacement at the last moment could salvage it.

Mousasi is dangerous and has fought at light heavyweight before and done well, and has trained for the show.  There's no story there.  At the end of the day, Cormier has probably put in too much in the way of preparation to be off the show.  It's simply too many millions of dollars potentially to not fight if the opportunity arises.

Jon Jones will be doing a press conference at the MGM Grand at 8:30 a.m. tomorrow morning to give an explanation of what happened.

[Brandon]

What a huge let down.

Of that list only Mousasi would have a chance. I'd rather he face Lesnar myself...that would be more interesting.  

 

[wbbfan]

4 hours ago, Brandon said:

Jon Jones is the biggest waste of talent... 

no kidding. Ive some times wondered if he would be better or worse if he didnt constant fight cheap. eye pokes, kicks to the knee etc. I went from meh but talented fighter to watching him implode and not be able to stand him. All the antics between him and DC, the childishness, then the drugs, the crash and run etc. Hes a hard guy to like. I think he would have easily 50-45'd DC in the rematch and put it all to bed. Im kinda of disappointing that at some point in the future all this will happen AGAIN. 

UFC is really loosing on this 200 card. Its got tons of depth and good fights top to bottom for the die hard mma fans. But it doesnt have as much appeal or sell power as it could have. 

Imagine if the card had; aldo/diaz vs mcG, RR vs tate, HH vs cybro, brock vs any one, JJ vs dc, and maybe even a GSP return? They could still have the loaded prelims etc too. For being the "big event" for many years they sure lack the biggest draws on the roster.

I hope they dont fill the DC JJ fight. Add another prelim and bump people up. Then have DC/JJ on one of the up coming fights Mabe in NY.

[The Unknown Poster]

Imagine if they hadnt made this deal with Brock.  Where would UFC 200 be right now...

[wbbfan]

1 minute ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Imagine if they hadnt made this deal with Brock.  Where would UFC 200 be right now...

Would be a good main card with a great under card. I dont think brock is gonna bring in the sales some do. But if they out of the blue through bisping in to DC to unify 2 division belts then maybe.