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[FrostyWinnipeg]

10 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

I find this very fascinating. There is intriguing evidence that they survived a crash landing.  If they were "rescued" by the Japanese it would explain why there has been some evidence they landed and survived on the island but no bodies were found.

Part of me says nah but why have they not found an aluminum aircraft either then i think about MA370.

[The Unknown Poster]

7 hours ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

Part of me says nah but why have they not found an aluminum aircraft either then i think about MA370.

Ocean is big.  Plane is small.  Especially in the case of 370.  I think they are pretty close, relatively speaking, to finding it.

There have been interesting discoveries made relating to the Gardner Island theory in relation to Amelia.  That she landed and might have even made transmissions from her plane until the surf swept it away.  A buried skeleton was found and conflicting reports had it as a middle aged man or a tall white woman.  The bones were lost.  They found other artifacts, a make up kit, plexiglass that was the same size and thickness of her plane window, a women's shoe heel, improvised tools etc.

Imagine they had landed...and waited for help to come and it never did.  Crazy.

The Japanese prisoner theory has existed for a long time.  So this photo isnt the first time it's come up.

Ofcourse, Star Trek fans know that the Caretaker abducted her and kept her in stasis until discovered by the Voyager crew 300 years from now.

[Fatty Liver]

Dramatic video of 2013 Asiana Airlines crash leaked

http://www.winnipegsun.com/2017/07/05/dramatic-video-of-2013-asiana-airlines-crash-posted-online

[Jacquie]

On 05/07/2017 at 0:53 PM, The Unknown Poster said:

Its possible he plead guilty to get out of jail.  its also possible he plead guilty because he's guilty.

The info about his father taking him there is moot unless its a mitigating circumstance to his own actions.  Plus, we dont shrug off 15/16 year old Canadians for violent crimes (at least we shouldn't). 

I'd strongly suspect that 10 years in Gitmo was a pretty stiff penalty for his actions (not strong enough if you're the family of the dead soldier).  But ten years in prison doesnt get you an apology from the PM and millions of dollars.

This PM is really embarrassing.  His remarks on Canada Day just showed his motivations and bias. 

As a Canadian, I'd like to apologize to our American friends.

He and his lawyer have both said he plead guilty to get out of Gitmo. He was the last prisoner and was getting no help from the Canadian government. He might still be there if he hadn't plead guilty.

The Supreme Court of Canada ruled twice that the government violated the human rights of Khadr. They specifically mentioned Khadr being interrogated by government officials after he had been tortured (Supreme Court has ruled that sleep deprivation is a form of torture) and without legal representation.

Again, there is no proof he was the person who threw the grenade. American soldiers who were there have said they don't know if it was him or someone else. 

If the Harper government had done what they were supposed to do and repatriated Khadr like every other government did then maybe Khadr's case wouldn't have gone to the Supreme Court and he wouldn't have sued for $20M. God knows how much the legal fees have been over the years the Harper government fought this case. We are likely getting off lighter with this settlement than if the court case had continued forward.

Why would you want to apologize to people who tortured individuals and violated their human rights, that's your right.

[Atomic]

11 minutes ago, Jacquie said:

He and his lawyer have both said he plead guilty to get out of Gitmo. He was the last prisoner and was getting no help from the Canadian government. He might still be there if he hadn't plead guilty.

The Supreme Court of Canada ruled twice that the government violated the human rights of Khadr. They specifically mentioned Khadr being interrogated by government officials after he had been tortured (Supreme Court has ruled that sleep deprivation is a form of torture) and without legal representation.

Again, there is no proof he was the person who threw the grenade. American soldiers who were there have said they don't know if it was him or someone else. 

If the Harper government had done what they were supposed to do and repatriated Khadr like every other government did then maybe Khadr's case wouldn't have gone to the Supreme Court and he wouldn't have sued for $20M. God knows how much the legal fees have been over the years the Harper government fought this case. We are likely getting off lighter with this settlement than if the court case had continued forward.

Why would you want to apologize to people who tortured individuals and violated their human rights, that's your right.

Whether he threw the grenade or not, he was fighting for the terrorist organization.  That's not up for debate.  People are rightly upset that someone fighting for a terrorist organization is receiving a 10 million dollar pay day.  People are rightly upset that Trudeau delivered a big "**** you" to our closest ally by releasing this info on JULY 4.  People are rightly upset that while the Liberals made promises to veterans when they were elected, they have walked away from those commitments while handing cash settlements to the very people who the veterans were fighting against.

**** Omar Khadr.  I wish the Americans had shot him right between the eyes.

[SPuDS]

15 minutes ago, Jacquie said:

He and his lawyer have both said he plead guilty to get out of Gitmo. He was the last prisoner and was getting no help from the Canadian government. He might still be there if he hadn't plead guilty.

The Supreme Court of Canada ruled twice that the government violated the human rights of Khadr. They specifically mentioned Khadr being interrogated by government officials after he had been tortured (Supreme Court has ruled that sleep deprivation is a form of torture) and without legal representation.

Again, there is no proof he was the person who threw the grenade. American soldiers who were there have said they don't know if it was him or someone else. 

If the Harper government had done what they were supposed to do and repatriated Khadr like every other government did then maybe Khadr's case wouldn't have gone to the Supreme Court and he wouldn't have sued for $20M. God knows how much the legal fees have been over the years the Harper government fought this case. We are likely getting off lighter with this settlement than if the court case had continued forward.

Why would you want to apologize to people who tortured individuals and violated their human rights, that's your right.

witnesses say he was the one who threw it.. he admitted to throwing it and then theres this as well..

 

"Aside from Khadr's statements, the prosecution's case also includes an 18-minute video that briefly shows Khadr taping together wires for what look like improvised explosive devices, which have accounted for the deaths and maiming of hundreds of NATO fighters in Afghanistan. The Pentagon also claims he planted land mines (which the defence documents contend Khadr helped U.S. forces "recover without incident"). "

 

so i mean, he was up to terrorist acts even if you need a stone cold proof of his throwing of the grenade that killed the medic (which we all know is not happening, it was a warzone for cryin' out loud) 

 

giving this terrorist (child soldier at 15 or not, he was a terrorist) 10.5 million for building bombs and planting landmines is completely ridiculous.  he was a willing enemy combatant.  I don't care if his dad "forced" him into doing this stuff, he could have said "nope, not doing it. dont wanna kill people"

 

 

 

 

[The Unknown Poster]

Yeah Im confused why people are getting caught up on the "they dont have specific, detailed, live, HD video of him throwing the grenade".  He was fighting for a terrorist organization involved in murdering soldiers.  Is there not video of him him making IED's?

Are we supposed to feel sorry for him that he was 15 years old?  Do we feel sorry for non-terrorists who break laws in this country?  Do we pay them off?

Besides, on the issue of whether he threw the grenade, what's interesting is, Khadr himself doesnt even maintain he didnt throw it.  His two positions were 1) I threw it 2) I cant remember either way.

As it relates to whether Khadr was tortured into giving false confessions, the military judge ruled his confessions did not arise from the incidents of aleged torture and, in fact, there was no evidence the torture happened.  If you cling to the "there is no definitive proof he threw a grenade" how can you also cling to "he was certainly tortured"?  Its simply a matter of accepting facts without concrete proof and rejecting the same from the other side.

Khadr was sent to al-Qaeda camps where he was taught to use guns and explosives.  He certainly had a lousy father.

But let's assume they couldnt prove he threw the grenade (even though he admitted it and plead guilty to it - we certainly accept people DO give false confessions), he also plead guilty to attempted murder, conspiring with al-Qaeda, spying  and giving support to terrorists.  Is there also no evidence of that?  He trained with al-Qaeda at the behest of his father who was a friend of Bin laden's.  He was captured at an al-Qaeda base engaged in a fight with US troops. 

As another posted has noted, he planted IED's (he helped the US locate them).

Whether he threw the grenade or not is moot.  Oj Simpson was sent up the river because he got away with murder, not because he stormed a Vegas hotel room.  Where is the outrage.  Khadr is a terrorist. 

If people feel sorry for his upbringing, I can accept that.  But every single day, there are kids that do bad things because of their parenting and we hold them accountable.

The government is wrong on this one.  They are excusing and rewarding a terrorist who fought against our allies.  We can disagree with how the US treats prisoners.  We can disagree with the Cuban base.  We can even say that being held there is so litigating that Khadr should now be free.  But to apologize on behalf of Canadians and give him money is outrageous. 

 

[SPuDS]

30 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Yeah Im confused why people are getting caught up on the "they dont have specific, detailed, live, HD video of him throwing the grenade".  He was fighting for a terrorist organization involved in murdering soldiers.  Is there not video of him him making IED's?

Are we supposed to feel sorry for him that he was 15 years old?  Do we feel sorry for non-terrorists who break laws in this country?  Do we pay them off?

Besides, on the issue of whether he threw the grenade, what's interesting is, Khadr himself doesnt even maintain he didnt throw it.  His two positions were 1) I threw it 2) I cant remember either way.

As it relates to whether Khadr was tortured into giving false confessions, the military judge ruled his confessions did not arise from the incidents of aleged torture and, in fact, there was no evidence the torture happened.  If you cling to the "there is no definitive proof he threw a grenade" how can you also cling to "he was certainly tortured"?  Its simply a matter of accepting facts without concrete proof and rejecting the same from the other side.

Khadr was sent to al-Qaeda camps where he was taught to use guns and explosives.  He certainly had a lousy father.

But let's assume they couldnt prove he threw the grenade (even though he admitted it and plead guilty to it - we certainly accept people DO give false confessions), he also plead guilty to attempted murder, conspiring with al-Qaeda, spying  and giving support to terrorists.  Is there also no evidence of that?  He trained with al-Qaeda at the behest of his father who was a friend of Bin laden's.  He was captured at an al-Qaeda base engaged in a fight with US troops. 

As another posted has noted, he planted IED's (he helped the US locate them).

Whether he threw the grenade or not is moot.  Oj Simpson was sent up the river because he got away with murder, not because he stormed a Vegas hotel room.  Where is the outrage.  Khadr is a terrorist. 

If people feel sorry for his upbringing, I can accept that.  But every single day, there are kids that do bad things because of their parenting and we hold them accountable.

The government is wrong on this one.  They are excusing and rewarding a terrorist who fought against our allies.  We can disagree with how the US treats prisoners.  We can disagree with the Cuban base.  We can even say that being held there is so litigating that Khadr should now be free.  But to apologize on behalf of Canadians and give him money is outrageous. 

 

not to mention, in a horrendous crime, kids here can and are tried as adults.  wouldn't being a member of a terrorist organization,  setting up explosive devices with attempt to maim and injure soldiers, building said devices and the other laundry list of charges he is guilty of, be enough to warrant a step up from youth offender to adult court?  I'd think so.

[The Unknown Poster]

Yes, the lefty love affair with Khadr is all about their inherent anti-Americanism and their desire to prove that Islamic Extremists are just misunderstood and if we all just accepted their warped view of the world and their own religion, they'd gleefully skip off arm and arm with us.  if we embrace their right to wish us dead, maybe they wont kill us.

[Atomic]

Just now, The Unknown Poster said:

Yes, the lefty love affair with Khadr is all about their inherent anti-Americanism and their desire to prove that Islamic Extremists are just misunderstood and if we all just accepted their warped view of the world and their own religion, they'd gleefully skip off arm and arm with us.  if we embrace their right to wish us dead, maybe they wont kill us.

Under Trudeau's anti-Islamophobia bill I think you just committed a crime.

[SPuDS]

39 minutes ago, Atomic said:

Under Trudeau's anti-Islamophobia bill I think you just committed a crime.

Shhhhh!!! CSIS is watching.

 

#bigbrother-eh

Edited July 6, 2017 by SPuDS
cuz i has teh dumb

[Jacquie]

From the Toronto Star:

Quote

Khadr has said that, while in U.S. custody, guards threatened him with rape, physically abused him and once left him hogtied until he urinated on himself. 

Canadian government reports show that, while at Guantanamo Bay, Khadr was subjected to sleep deprivation and solitary confinement in an effort to make him “more amenable and willing to talk.”

More damning still, the reports show Canadian officials knew about the “enhanced interrogation techniques” but assured the public he was being treated humanely.

In three separate rulings over the past decade, the Supreme Court of Canada has determined that the Canadian government acted illegally by sharing intelligence information about Khadr with the U.S.; violated Khadr’s constitutional rights by interrogating him at Guantanamo despite knowing he had been abused; and wrongfully placed Khadr in a federal penitentiary following his transfer to the Canadian penal system.

From one of the Supreme Court's rulings (my mistake earlier - there were 3 rulings, not 2 in the case that went against the Government):

Quote

The interrogation of a youth detained without access to counsel, to elicit statements about serious criminal charges while knowing that the youth had been subjected to sleep deprivation and while knowing that the fruits of the interrogations would be shared with the prosecutors, offends the most basic Canadian standards about the treatment of detained youth suspects."

From the CBC:

Quote

Khadr has alleged he was tortured on several occasions, and the Supreme Court actually addressed one of them. 

For three weeks ahead of an interview with a Foreign Affairs official in 2004, Khadr was subjected to the "frequent flyer program," a method of sleep deprivation in which Khadr was moved to a different cell every three hours. The court said the Canadian official knew about this before conducting the interview.

Sleep deprivation is widely viewed as a form of torture. Indeed, members of the Canadian Forces are prohibited from using sleep deprivation as a tactic of interrogation.

Khadr has said he has memories of throwing the grenade but he doesn't know if they are his own memories or false memories from when he was tortured and interrogated.

I accidentally deleted part of this post when trying to fix the quotes on my iPad so if I can remember the rest I'll post it in a new post.

Edited July 6, 2017 by Jacquie
trying to fix quotes

[Jacquie]

23 minutes ago, SPuDS said:

Shhhhh!!! NCIS is watching.

 

#bigbrother-eh

If Mark Harmon wants to watch me, I'm fine with that.

Edited July 6, 2017 by Jacquie

[SPuDS]

5 minutes ago, Jacquie said:

If Mark Harmon wants to watch me, I'm fine with that.

 

5 minutes ago, Jacquie said:

If Mark Harmon wants to watch me, I'm fine with that.

DOH!

CSIS.. sigh.

[Jacquie]

From the Child Soldiers Initiative website (this is an initiative organized by Romeo Dallaire whose opinion I value much more than anyone from the Conservative Party) :

Quote

Statement by LGen Roméo Dallaire and Dr. Shelly Whitman on Omar Khadr

Today, the Canadian government has finally given Omar Khadr the apology he has long deserved.

It has been a long 15 years.

Starting in 2002, in the fields of Afghanistan, where a young Omar Khadr was forced to move and take up arms as a child soldier under the guidance of his father, a long and winding saga has unfolded. After being torn asunder in a firefight with American forces that claimed the life of Sgt. Christopher Speer, a Delta Force strategic forces soldier and special forces medic, allegedly by a grenade thrown by Khadr, he was detained in Guantanamo Bay for ten years.

Canada, at the time of Khadr’s incarceration, failed to act in accordance with international standards to protect children who are unscrupulously used as weapons of war. This failure had a negative impact on Canada’s image as a protector of children’s rights and brought into question our commitment to human rights.

An apology and compensation is just the first step in a long healing process that has only begun for this young man. An apology does not absolve Canada for its many years of inaction, but does give it an opportunity to finally lead once again on issues of children. When Khadr was finally released on bail on May 7^th of 2015 he stated, “there is nothing I can do about the past, but there is something I can do about the future”.

Canada can and should find resonance and continued action in these words.

We applaud the action of the Canadian government in issuing this apology as a critical step to demonstrate a children’s rights upfront approach. It is time for us to break the cycle of violence that so many children are vulnerable to around the world.

Sincerely,

LGen Roméo Dallaire (Ret’d) and Dr. Shelly Whitman

https://www.childsoldiers.org/

[Jimmy Pop]

Ok.. well there's no Random Video thread, so apologies if y'all are uninterested. Just thought this was awesome!

‪ https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cZnBNuqqz5g‬

Edited July 6, 2017 by Jimmy Pop
bad link

[Atomic]

2 hours ago, Jimmy Pop said:

Ok.. well there's no Random Video thread, so apologies if y'all are uninterested. Just thought this was awesome!

‪ https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cZnBNuqqz5g‬

 

[The Unknown Poster]

Sleep deprivation and solitary confinement. Poor him. He was a terrorist combatant who murdered a man and conspired to attempt to murder many others 

im seeing statements about his lousy stay in Cuba but I'm not seeing any defence of his actions that make any sense

why is he rich and why did he earn an apology?

by the way, the government made sure he got paid to prevent the soldiers widow from trying to enforce the wrongful death judgement 

so I guess only certain laws are worth enforcing  

 

[FrostyWinnipeg]

Again the argument will be made

a] he was child soldier and Canada itself at the time said he can not be held responsible

b] he was a soldier, yes a taliban soldier not a terrorist who was defending his country but course in the usa no there is difference

c] a canadian official knew that what the usa was doing was breaking geneva convention

 

 

 

Edited July 7, 2017 by FrostyWinnipeg

[Jacquie]

42 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Sleep deprivation and solitary confinement. Poor him. He was a terrorist combatant who murdered a man and conspired to attempt to murder many others 

im seeing statements about his lousy stay in Cuba but I'm not seeing any defence of his actions that make any sense

why is he rich and why did he earn an apology?

by the way, the government made sure he got paid to prevent the soldiers widow from trying to enforce the wrongful death judgement 

so I guess only certain laws are worth enforcing  

 

Did you read the article that was linked in that tweet? I don't think the person who sent out that tweet did since it says there was little chance of a Canadian court enforcing the judgment especially with the rulings by the Supreme Court.

Quote

 

Ms. Speer and Mr. Morris can still try to persuade the courts to recognize the $134-million (U.S.) default judgment (a ruling made in the defendant’s absence), although legal experts say that could be an uphill battle for a number of reasons.

“They can still try to enforce that judgment … but the court in Canada has to weigh whether the foreign judgment was arrived at properly before deciding whether to enforce it,” Prof. Attaran said. “... Khadr was in prison [at the time of the ruling] and therefore, it shouldn’t be recognized. There is also a broad legal authority that if a judgment is unconscionable it shouldn’t be enforced, and this one is clearly unconscionable because it is an attempt to hold a child soldier liable.”

 

What law wasn't enforced? 

Quote

The notice of application filed on June 8 in Ontario Superior Court referenced an emergency injunction “if requested” to block any payment of compensation to Mr. Khadr. No court date was requested for an injunction and Mr. Khadr’s lawyers and the federal government were not served with notice of the legal challenge.

Seems to me the lawyers for the widow dropped the ball.

 

[Atomic]

8 hours ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

b] he was a soldier, yes a taliban soldier not a terrorist who was defending his country but course in the usa no there is difference

This is the silliest argument of all.  Good for him, he's fighting for his country.  Wait... I thought Canada was his country?

If we go to war with North Korea and I go fight for NK can I still expect Canada to protect me?  I stand there mowing down Canadian soldiers and when they shoot back I say "WOAH!!  Hold on guys I'm Canadian!"

[The Unknown Poster]

8 hours ago, Jacquie said:

Did you read the article that was linked in that tweet? I don't think the person who sent out that tweet did since it says there was little chance of a Canadian court enforcing the judgment especially with the rulings by the Supreme Court.

What law wasn't enforced? 

Seems to me the lawyers for the widow dropped the ball.

 

You're cherry picking.  She has a lawful order in the US.  I never said it was valid in Canada.  But you're embracing a soldier of a terrorist organization who, there is no doubt, was making bombs with the intent of killing soldiers and who confessed to killing a solider.  And you're defending HIS position while making excuses for the lawful order obtained by the widow of the dead soldier.

In your order of importance, the terrorist is higher than the widow.

[The Unknown Poster]

11 minutes ago, Atomic said:

This is the silliest argument of all.  Good for him, he's fighting for his country.  Wait... I thought Canada was his country?

If we go to war with North Korea and I go fight for NK can I still expect Canada to protect me?  I stand there mowing down Canadian soldiers and when they shoot back I say "WOAH!!  Hold on guys I'm Canadian!"

This is a big thing.  He left Canada.  And his parents werent here because they loved the country anyway.  Either way, this terrorist left Canada, trained at a terrorist facility and fought against Canada and its allies.  So he can try to kill us and our allies and when caught he gets to say "oh Im Canadian"? 

There is the letter of the law and there is common sense.  His citizenship should have been revoked.  He was an enemy combatant.  Its not like he got a DUI while on vacation in Mexico and needs Canada to help him get back.  Screw him.

This is so embarrassing to so many Canadians.  Really really embarrassing. 

[FrostyWinnipeg]

2 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

There is the letter of the law and there is common sense.  His citizenship should have been revoked.  He was an enemy combatant.  Its not like he got a DUI while on vacation in Mexico and needs Canada to help him get back.  Screw him.

This is so embarrassing to so many Canadians.  Really really embarrassing. 

Everyone is an enemy combatant to the US now! It's the new axis of evil.

There would likely not have been any payout if the Canuck official had stepped in and said no you can't do that to him.

 

[The Unknown Poster]

3 minutes ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

Everyone is an enemy combatant to the US now! It's the new axis of evil.

There would likely not have been any payout if the Canuck official had stepped in and said no you can't do that to him.

 

Shouldn't have been Canada's problem.  And once this guy tried to make it an issue, Canada should have revoked his citizenship and washed their hands of him.  He shouldn't even be in this country right now.