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[Fatty Liver]

4 minutes ago, iso_55 said:

Tell me TUP, if a 40 year old guy showed up at your hose wanting to play with your 10 year old, would you let him? That's basically Jackson. Except he had a huge money, a playroom in his mansion, an animal farm on his property & he liked it when little kids slept over. No evidence really because he paid people off to shut up. Others tried to sue the Jackson estate in 2015 but a judge said no.

He also liked to sleep with them in the same bed....but make no mistake, there wasn't anything sexual about it.

[iso_55]

2 minutes ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

He also liked to sleep with them in the same bed....but make no mistake, there wasn't anything sexual about it.

Of course not. Ugh.

Edited June 2, 2016 by iso_55

[Fatty Liver]

6 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

That's not true.  The case against Jackson was extremely controversial with no evidence whatsoever.  There are some good books on that subject.  Totally different case.

Polanski actually HAD sex with a 13 year old girl after giving her drugs and booze and admitted it.  Its not like he's "accused" and the victim wont coperate and the evidence is old and unclear.  He fled prior to sentencing.  He's guilty.  Instead of going to jail he went to France.  He deserves to be brought back and sent to jail.

On the one hand you're screaming for justice 40 years after the fact and on the other you're excusing extremely deviant behavior by a very wealthy serial offender.  Parents should have been charged for providing Jackson with the fodder to perpetuate his deviance, it's batshit wacko.

 

 

[FrostyWinnipeg]

Come on...it's Michael Jackson!

[Jacquie]

2 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Disagree. If she was 15 and paid off you'd feel differently I bet. He thumbed his nose because he was rich. Should be prosecuted. 

She was a minor. Whether she was 13 or 15 doesn't matter to me. The fact is what he did was wrong.

It's also a fact that the victim, as an adult, has requested the prosecution stop numerous times and they have ignored her wishes. Even if he returned (either voluntarily or was extradited) what do you think the likelihood of conviction would be with an uncooperative victim who probably wouldn't testify against him (and given some of her statements might testify for him). 

[iso_55]

Like seriously TUP, you pick the strangest hills to die on. Want justice for a crime 50 years ago yet refuse to accept that MJ was a pedophile who shut everyone up by paying off parents to shut up. Enjoy Thriller the next time you hear it.

Edited June 2, 2016 by iso_55

[Brandon]

3 hours ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

He also liked to sleep with them in the same bed....but make no mistake, there wasn't anything sexual about it.

So did Gandhi but people revered him....

Clearly MJ was messed in the head...  but to call him a child rapist without any concrete proof is kind of harsh.   

It doesn't matter for Polanski... who cares how much time has passed... the guy deserves a worse fate then what he has had. 

[Jacquie]

9 minutes ago, Brandon said:

It doesn't matter for Polanski... who cares how much time has passed... the guy deserves a worse fate then what he has had. 

Some would say fate had already dealt him a pretty shitty hand considering everything he went through before the court case.

And no I am not saying that should have excused him for anything. Just pointing out that his life has not been all rainbows and unicorns.

Edited June 2, 2016 by Jacquie

[Fatty Liver]

1 hour ago, Brandon said:

So did Gandhi but people revered him....

Clearly MJ was messed in the head...  but to call him a child rapist without any concrete proof is kind of harsh.   

It doesn't matter for Polanski... who cares how much time has passed... the guy deserves a worse fate then what he has had. 

Obviously Jackson was not a child rapist as there would be physical evidence of the crime, but plenty of indicators point to him as a person capable of pedophilia.  People have been locked away for looking at photos on the Internet even though they made no attempt to ever fulfill their fantasies in the real world. 

Meanwhile MJ is having pajama parties with other peoples children in an unsupervised environment, repeatedly.  Some of the parents pressed charges and received settlements, which was an acceptable price for MJ to pay to continue on unabated with his insane hobby.

Edited June 2, 2016 by Throw Long Bannatyne

[iso_55]

MJ sleeping with kids & to assume nothing happened? That's just sick. We all know justice is not equal in the eyes of the law. One law for the rich & then another for everyone else. To think that MJ could innocently crawl into bed with a 10 year old kids & nothing ever happened is pure fantasy. And naive.

Edited June 2, 2016 by iso_55

[bigg jay]

8 hours ago, Jacquie said:

She was a minor. Whether she was 13 or 15 doesn't matter to me. The fact is what he did was wrong.

It's also a fact that the victim, as an adult, has requested the prosecution stop numerous times and they have ignored her wishes. Even if he returned (either voluntarily or was extradited) what do you think the likelihood of conviction would be with an uncooperative victim who probably wouldn't testify against him (and given some of her statements might testify for him). 

Isn't that a moot point since he already plead guilty?  There already was a conviction, he just skipped the country before sentencing so unless they are going to re-try the whole case, I don't see what part she would play other than maybe a victim impact statement.  They already have her grand jury testimony to go off of, which wasn't so positive for Polanski, so the prosecutor could just choose to use that.

[The Unknown Poster]

10 hours ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

On the one hand you're screaming for justice 40 years after the fact and on the other you're excusing extremely deviant behavior by a very wealthy serial offender.  Parents should have been charged for providing Jackson with the fodder to perpetuate his deviance, it's batshit wacko.

 

 

So....regardless of whether anything actually happened?  Dont use the non-evidence in Jackson to minimize the fact Polanski admitted to it.  Thats all Im saying.  They are very different.  By the way Jackson stayed, went to trial and was acquitted.  Polanski didnt.  He admitted it and fled the consequences to live a life high on the hog in France.

[The Unknown Poster]

8 hours ago, iso_55 said:

Like seriously TUP, you pick the strangest hills to die on. Want justice for a crime 50 years ago yet refuse to accept that MJ was a pedophile who shut everyone up by paying off parents to shut up. Enjoy Thriller the next time you hear it.

I will enjoy Thriller.  Do a little research.  And regardless, its a moot point.  Jackson went to court, was acquitted.  There is no comparison to the Polanski trial.  Its not a hill to die on.  In fact you're the one seemingly brushing off Polanski who admitted to it and then fled the country while crucifying Jackson who was acquitted.  Not the same at all.

I'd suggest starting a new thread on Jackson if it means that much to you.  And then we can debate things such as:

The whole molestation thing began when a father of one of the kids Michael befriended tried to extort Michael.  Those are facts.  There were witnesses and tape recordings.  The guy demanded a $20 million production deal with Jackson (among other things) "or else".  Jackson refused and the guy went nuts saying if he didnt get what he wanted out of the relationship he was going to destroy Jackson.  It was extortion. 

But this isnt about him at all.  Its about an admitted child rapist who might finally be looking at consequences and the people who defend him because he's a famous, talented, white director.

Edited June 2, 2016 by The Unknown Poster

[Brandon]

8 hours ago, Jacquie said:

Some would say fate had already dealt him a pretty shitty hand considering everything he went through before the court case.

And no I am not saying that should have excused him for anything. Just pointing out that his life has not been all rainbows and unicorns.

I'm pretty sure his life has been much better then alternate fate of going to jail for a long time....

 

 

[The Unknown Poster]

I cant believe Brandon and I are in complete agreement here! lol

The murder of his wife is a relevant point to a degree, in that I think part of why so many excuse Polanski's behavior is because they feel sorry for him.  A lot of arm chair shrinks claim the murder messed him up and basically he was mentally ill at the time of the rape and otherwise wouldnt have done it.  Ofcourse, being sad isnt an excuse.  But if he was mentally ill, that is a relevant point, except not one that was ever presented and even so doesnt remove him from any consequences.

I'd suspect he gets a very light sentence if he ever does return to Cali.  Due to his age and the victim not wanting to proceed.  Although you never know.  If I recall, there had been an effort a few years ago to make a deal with the DA to wrap the case up with Polanski escaping any serious consequences inr return for going back to Cali and the DA refused.  So there is some desire to make him pay.

I was speaking with someone last night about this and the difference between how Hollywood treats Polanski and Cosby and was asked "do you think race plays a part".  Very interesting...

[iso_55]

And the difference between how Hollywood treats Pop Icon Jackson is how much you willing to pay to keep these little kids & their families quiet?

 

[The Unknown Poster]

1 hour ago, iso_55 said:

And the difference between how Hollywood treats Pop Icon Jackson is how much you willing to pay to keep these little kids & their families quiet?

 

  I realise you wont relent in the face of facts because you've taken a position and wont give it up, but Jackson was an attempted extortion.  Please tell me what that has to do with Polanski ADMITTING to sex with a 13 year old girl and then fleeing before sentencing.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

Didnt the kid in the first MJ court case say it was a setup?

[The Unknown Poster]

8 minutes ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

Didnt the kid in the first MJ court case say it was a setup?

I havent recollected all the details.  But I know the original instance of allegations came from the father of a boy after he demanded Jackson sign a $20 million production agreement.  The father was an aspiring screen writer.  He had earlier suggested Jackson build him a new house.  He became somewhat estranged from the boys mother (they were divorced) and as the mother and boy began getting more attention from Jackson than the father, he grew angry.

He was on tape as telling people if he didnt get what he wanted that he would destroy Jackson and that he hired a nasty lawyer for that reason.  When asked if it would negatively impact his son, he said he didnt care.  It was about how he felt snubbed by Jackson.  So after threatening extortion, he met with Jackson (lawyers were there) and hugged Jackson (hardly the actions of a man who thinks he molested his on) and tried to negotiate the $20 million deal.

Jackson refused and instead an offer was made to finance one script.  A counter offer of three scripts was made and again Jackson refused.

An investigator questioned the by who denied anything went on at all.  The basis for the extortion was the father's lawyer presented a hypothetical scenario to a shrink, basically that an adult male showered a boy with gifts, had sleep overs etc and the shrink said hypothetically it would present the potential for abuse.  The father used that hypothetical "report" to threaten Jackson.  He also added details from his son that his son denied every saying.

The father then essentially kidnapped the child.  He had not been interested in his son for years until Jackson got involved and then suddenly he wanted to be involved, bragged to friends about knowing Jackson etc.  He plotted to get the kid away from his mother (because the kid was saying nothing went on and the mother trusted Jackson).  He made a deal with the mother for one week visitation and then never gave the kid back.  Once he had the kid sheltered, he then administered a drug (he was a dentist) and got the kid to "admit" to abuse.  Many experts said the drug used was too likely to present false allegations and coercion and couldnt be trusted.

The father, by the way, had been suspended and sued as a result of being a lousy dentist.  He was nearly $70,000 behind in child support which his ex eventually forgave.  The lawyer he hired was also behind in child support despite having a seemingly successful practice.  When sued, he transferred his assets into Panamanian companies to hide them.  Very shady character. 

As a recall, this was the case where jackson was actually never charged with anything.  It was so obviously a set up.  The problem is, he went along with his handlers who suggested paying the guy to go away.  That created a scenario where people could try for their own pay days.  Certainly Jackson's odd behavior didnt help.  Once he had been attacked, he should have made sure he was never alone with a child again.  But part of Jackson's own mental issues stemming from his childhood was that he simply trusted everyone and wanted to be around kids to enjoy a childhood he never had.

Jackson was his own worst enemy.  But I dont believe for a second he was a pedo.  For that to be true then it means he was accused multiple times where most of those accusations were lies and extortion and coincidentally one happened to also be true?  Not likely.

Anyway, I disgress.  Jackson is an interesting case and if we want to discuss it, perhaps mods could split off.  Ill say this, I vividly recall when this came to light and I was 100% convinced of Jackson's guilt like many people.  But then as I got older, I actually read more about the case.  He didnt do anything.

Polanski on the other hand admitted it, agreed to plead guilty and then skipped town.  Again, look how many people turned on Jackson with overwhelming evidence he was set up.  And yet how many of those same people defend Polanski and blame the 13 year old who was boozed and drugged. 

[Brandon]

So many double standards everywhere with Polanski and this story:

http://www.canada.com/news/texas+teacher+allegedly+impregnated+year+during+parent+approved/11957244/story.html

It somewhat reminds me of the South Park episode where Ike was having an affair with his teacher and because the teacher was hot all the police guys were saying.... "niiiiiiiice". 

 

 

IMO a crime is a crime ,   their is a reason why police have cold case sections.... just because time has passed it doesn't mean justice shouldn't be served.

Also just because a teacher is hot...  or a man is rich... shouldn't make a difference in how someone is punished... 

Anyone getting raped... never the less when they are a child.... that's horrendous and the criminal should be punished at the fullest.

How about instead of jail time they cut off Roman's polish sausage?

[Jacquie]

8 hours ago, bigg jay said:

Isn't that a moot point since he already plead guilty?  There already was a conviction, he just skipped the country before sentencing so unless they are going to re-try the whole case, I don't see what part she would play other than maybe a victim impact statement.  They already have her grand jury testimony to go off of, which wasn't so positive for Polanski, so the prosecutor could just choose to use that.

When he left the other charges against him were re-instated. From what I understand they can't use the Grand Jury testimony unless she is not physically able to appear (i.e. not in the country, dead). Under US law the defendant has the right to confront their accuser and you can't cross-examine a transcript.

[Jacquie]

8 hours ago, Brandon said:

I'm pretty sure his life has been much better then alternate fate of going to jail for a long time....

He lived in the Krakow Ghetto. His mother was killed in Auschwitz. His father and sister survived concentration camps. He was hidden by Catholic Poles during WWII. His wife and unborn child were murdered by the Manson family. 

And he wouldn't have gone to jail for a long time. 

And FYI TUP, Polanski had been in Europe and returned to the U.S. to face the charges and make the plea deal.

Edited June 2, 2016 by Jacquie

[The Unknown Poster]

25 minutes ago, Jacquie said:

He lived in the Krakow Ghetto. His mother was killed in Auschwitz. His father and sister survived concentration camps. He was hidden by Catholic Poles during WWII. His wife and unborn child were murdered by the Manson family. 

And he wouldn't have gone to jail for a long time. 

And FYI TUP, Polanski had been in Europe and returned to the U.S. to face the charges and make the plea deal.

And....?  He only wanted to operate when he thought his rich pals would grease some palms.  When there was a risk of prison, he took off.  Does having a lousy life beforehand give him one free child raping?  

[Brandon]

1 hour ago, Jacquie said:

He lived in the Krakow Ghetto. His mother was killed in Auschwitz. His father and sister survived concentration camps. He was hidden by Catholic Poles during WWII. His wife and unborn child were murdered by the Manson family. 

Are you trying to justify raping a 13 year old?   Yowza 

[iso_55]

8 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

I havent recollected all the details.  But I know the original instance of allegations came from the father of a boy after he demanded Jackson sign a $20 million production agreement.  The father was an aspiring screen writer.  He had earlier suggested Jackson build him a new house.  He became somewhat estranged from the boys mother (they were divorced) and as the mother and boy began getting more attention from Jackson than the father, he grew angry.

He was on tape as telling people if he didnt get what he wanted that he would destroy Jackson and that he hired a nasty lawyer for that reason.  When asked if it would negatively impact his son, he said he didnt care.  It was about how he felt snubbed by Jackson.  So after threatening extortion, he met with Jackson (lawyers were there) and hugged Jackson (hardly the actions of a man who thinks he molested his on) and tried to negotiate the $20 million deal.

Jackson refused and instead an offer was made to finance one script.  A counter offer of three scripts was made and again Jackson refused.

An investigator questioned the by who denied anything went on at all.  The basis for the extortion was the father's lawyer presented a hypothetical scenario to a shrink, basically that an adult male showered a boy with gifts, had sleep overs etc and the shrink said hypothetically it would present the potential for abuse.  The father used that hypothetical "report" to threaten Jackson.  He also added details from his son that his son denied every saying.

The father then essentially kidnapped the child.  He had not been interested in his son for years until Jackson got involved and then suddenly he wanted to be involved, bragged to friends about knowing Jackson etc.  He plotted to get the kid away from his mother (because the kid was saying nothing went on and the mother trusted Jackson).  He made a deal with the mother for one week visitation and then never gave the kid back.  Once he had the kid sheltered, he then administered a drug (he was a dentist) and got the kid to "admit" to abuse.  Many experts said the drug used was too likely to present false allegations and coercion and couldnt be trusted.

The father, by the way, had been suspended and sued as a result of being a lousy dentist.  He was nearly $70,000 behind in child support which his ex eventually forgave.  The lawyer he hired was also behind in child support despite having a seemingly successful practice.  When sued, he transferred his assets into Panamanian companies to hide them.  Very shady character. 

As a recall, this was the case where jackson was actually never charged with anything.  It was so obviously a set up.  The problem is, he went along with his handlers who suggested paying the guy to go away.  That created a scenario where people could try for their own pay days.  Certainly Jackson's odd behavior didnt help.  Once he had been attacked, he should have made sure he was never alone with a child again.  But part of Jackson's own mental issues stemming from his childhood was that he simply trusted everyone and wanted to be around kids to enjoy a childhood he never had.

Jackson was his own worst enemy.  But I dont believe for a second he was a pedo.  For that to be true then it means he was accused multiple times where most of those accusations were lies and extortion and coincidentally one happened to also be true?  Not likely.

Anyway, I disgress.  Jackson is an interesting case and if we want to discuss it, perhaps mods could split off.  Ill say this, I vividly recall when this came to light and I was 100% convinced of Jackson's guilt like many people.  But then as I got older, I actually read more about the case.  He didnt do anything.

Polanski on the other hand admitted it, agreed to plead guilty and then skipped town.  Again, look how many people turned on Jackson with overwhelming evidence he was set up.  And yet how many of those same people defend Polanski and blame the 13 year old who was boozed and drugged. 

So, Jackson was a just a poor misunderstood & mixed up guy who wanted to relive his childhood by sleeping with kids? You claim you "don't believe for a second he was a pedo" yet you don't know for sure. I just sense a ton of hypocrisy here. You defend a sicko like Jackson & want justice a half century later for Polanski.