Wrestling

[The Unknown Poster]

41 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Tonight was TrollaMania for sure. Make no mistake vince will be back next week and things will change once again. I actually thought that the crowd was pretty dead. WWE acknowledged the after mania raw crowd and made it not cool. I like loud crowds.. they make the show better. But what was once a fun crowd who bood and cheered at the right times have become a joke who try to hijack the show. Raw was awful. It was really bad. They trolled the fans tonight big time. As per Shane Mcmahon eh? Lol wwe can't think their fans are that dumb do they. I've never seen a company treat their fans like wwe treats there's.  I'm done with WWE for a while now. Enzo Cass are cool. Crews is still green. Corbin is also. 

Vince loves his big guys tho.

Well Vincr wasn't really gone. It wouldn't surprise me if we don't see him for awhile. He didn't want to come back in the first place but did to try and get Roman over. 

i thought them trying to explain away the crowd was rather stupid. Like you said it changes the organic cool feeling when wwe pretends like they're in on it. Especially trying to imply the fans usually cheer roman. 

Very surprised Crews was called up. He's very green. His match tonight (against his best opponent from NxT) was his complete highlight package. 

Still see nothing in Corben. Nothing at all. He looked lost the whole match. 

on the other hand, Enzo & Cass are great. Won't be long before vince salivates over Cass and wants to split them up. Too bad they didn't bring Carnella up too. In fact, if they are going to program with Dudleys sign Bubba's girlfriend Velvet Sky and have six man tags too. 

Good to see Maryse back. They should have put her with Miz years ago.  How long before they split them up to try to screw with a legit couple?

the Shane gimmick was stupid since nothing really happened. 

Cesaro back is cool but I was hoping for Joe.  Maybe they really will turn Roman because he isn't getting cheered against AJ. But at least the matches have a chance of being decent.  So AJ lost last night because he was winning today. 50/50 booking as usual. Terrible. 

No Bullet Club. Hmmm  maybe Hunter wants the rub off bringing them in when he's back. 

Love the crowd. The only time they were annoying was the women's segment because the reason the women were always treated as thoigh no one cared was because of the fans not cAring. But they wanted Baley which would have made sense. But they ended up showing respect anyway. 

other than that they made a lot of guys seem like major stars like Crews, Enzo & Cass and KO. The only opposite reaction I think to any great degree was Roman. 

[Taynted_Fayth]

the fans cheering thank you wyatt for putting out sheamus im still having trouble with.  they could have left the end of the LoN/New day match as is with LoN kicking out Barrett, instead the crowd starts cheering the wyatts which, unless they plan on making them a face serves no purpose other then drawing a line for a feud between them and LoN, but then what, their characters and gimmick is better served as heel but just need better writing behind them.

It's kind of like the Big show and their constant flip flopping of him from face to heel. I dont like it and I dont think the crowd does either.  he gets alot more heat being a heel then he is being the lovable loser they always make him when hes a good guy

Edited April 5, 2016 by Taynted_Fayth

[Goalie]

The Wyatts have been pseudo faces for a year now. Rock sort of put Bray over last night... in a weird way. But he gave him the rub. 

Edited April 5, 2016 by Goalie

[iso_55]

The Wyatts lost as heels constantly. Now they'll really lose as faces.

[The Unknown Poster]

Yes one would assume they are faces now. 

[Atomic]

7 hours ago, iso_55 said:

The Wyatts lost as heels constantly. Now they'll really lose as faces.

I don't know... if they are feuding with League of Nations then the Wyatts might finally pick up some wins.

[The Unknown Poster]

Would expect Bray to be in line for a push.  Although it would make more sense for him to be a heel since they are weak on the heel side.  But it could be as simple as someone saying "hey there are three New Day and three Wyatts and three LON, lets have them feud". 

[The Unknown Poster]

 

[iso_55]

12 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Would expect Bray to be in line for a push.  Although it would make more sense for him to be a heel since they are weak on the heel side.  But it could be as simple as someone saying "hey there are three New Day and three Wyatts and three LON, lets have them feud". 

That's probably what happened. Today, Pro Wrestling News tweeted that Kevin Owens was supposed to hang on to his IC championship only to be changed to Zach Ryder an hour before the match.

Edited April 6, 2016 by iso_55

[The Unknown Poster]

34 minutes ago, iso_55 said:

That's probably what happened. Today, Pro Wrestling News tweeted that Kevin Owens was supposed to hang on to his IC championship only to be changed to Zach Ryder an hour before the match.

I think I said that already

Ryder was definitely considered on Saturday as betting suddenly switched to him. But yes Owens was supposed to retain. Hopefully that means Owens moving up the card but I think a long IC reign would have been good for him and the title. He's over and has good matches.  

But Miz with Maryse should be good.  Maybe that's why they wanted it on Miz, to make Maryse's return important. 

[iso_55]

1 hour ago, The Unknown Poster said:

I think I said that already

Ryder was definitely considered on Saturday as betting suddenly switched to him. But yes Owens was supposed to retain. Hopefully that means Owens moving up the card but I think a long IC reign would have been good for him and the title. He's over and has good matches.  

But Miz with Maryse should be good.  Maybe that's why they wanted it on Miz, to make Maryse's return important. 

I barely remember Maryse.

[The Unknown Poster]

1 hour ago, iso_55 said:

I barely remember Maryse.

Ohhhhh she was a good one man. Gorgeous with great charisma. She and Miz will be a great package. 

[iso_55]

Quote

Miz will spoil it.

 

 

[The Unknown Poster]

3 hours ago, iso_55 said:

 

Im actually a fan of Miz.  I know most people arent including some really smart wrestling journalists.  I think he has the look, the charisma, the mic skills and isnt a bad worker.  He "gets" the PR side of wrestling.  They should give him a long IC title reign.

[Goalie]

The Miz bores the crap out of me, I think they have done way to much damage to his character for him to ever recover or actually be taken seriously again by the audience. While I agree that he is a good heel and has the mic skills and charisma, I think he lacks that ability to connect with the audience, and mainly through no fault of his own, it's because of the way he's been booked. I don't think people really give a crap about MIZ, and not in the he's a heel way, i think it's more in the... who are you kidding kind of way. WWE has basically ruined the MIZ and at this point, not even Maryse, who most people have no idea who she is, can save him. 

 

People are bored of the MIZ.. Doesn't matter what a few people think, it matters what the majority think and it seems like, well, he gets very little reaction and generally the reaction he does get is UGGGG not the MIZ... that's not good. I'd almost say he's got XPAC heat where the audience just wants him to go away, not cuz they don't like him cuz he's a heel but because they just don't like him and are sick of him pretty much. 

 

Question tho... Roman Reigns, some signs there that he is going to go heel... does that make a difference tho? I mean, i'm not sure the booing that the audience does, i'm not sure if it's directed at  Roman or the Booking of Roman, cuz Roman ain't so bad, it's just that... John Cena is the goody two shoes superman, said actually said that's his character, Owens is the trash talking heel who doesn't care what people think, SCSA was the anti authority bad ass, Rock was the funny guy with all the one liners, What the heck is Roman Reigns? I think that's the problem, and i'm not sure if turning him heel fixes that problem... What is Roman Reigns? What's his character? He's not a good guy, he's not a bad guy, he's just the guy? That doesn't really work. 

Edited April 6, 2016 by Goalie

[The Unknown Poster]

WWE has a current trend towards "tweeners" (ie. inbetweeners, those that are inbetween heel and face).  Its a "shades of grey" mentality that not every good guy is always good and not every bad guy is always bad.  But its awful for storytelling.  I struggled with that when I became a booker.  I wanted to tell realistic stories where everyone was fighting for the championships and competing with each other.  But in wrestling you need heels and faces to tell compelling stories.  And when you have that, a real tweener or heel/heel and face/face matches are interesting.  When everyone is a tweener, no one is over.

Im worried that are trying to co-opt the reaction Roman gets by claiming "this is the reaction we intended" by presenting him as neither good nor bad.

Working with Aj is interesting because Roman is likely get a good reaction from kids and women and AJ is going to get the reaction from the men and the more smart fans (and kids).  It means good matches.  But its a weird dynamic if they want Roman over as a face.  So yeah it sort of plants the idea of a heel turn but if they were going to do that they should have done it at WM or RAW.

On the other hand, with the Bullet Club scheduled to debut imminently, it could be a set up to Anderson, Gallows, AJ vs a reunited Shield. 

[iso_55]

18 hours ago, iso_55 said:

 

Miz is a crap wrestler. Just like Ryder but with more of a push. His mic work keeps him in the WWE.

[iso_55]

14 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Im actually a fan of Miz.  I know most people arent including some really smart wrestling journalists.  I think he has the look, the charisma, the mic skills and isnt a bad worker.  He "gets" the PR side of wrestling.  They should give him a long IC title reign.

Then after his IC reign send him packing never to be seen again.

[iso_55]

Too many NXT wrestlers & tag teams this past Raw all at once. You don't sell it like that. Why is Barrin Corbin here? He has the charisma of a wet rag. Why isn't Joe or Balor here instead? I don't know much about the "And You Can't Teach That!" tag team other than the little guy is good on the stick. Now the Vaude Villains are in WWE. Too much, too fast.

[iso_55]

I remember Maryse (barely) from 7 or 8 years ago. She was a pretty good wrestler but in that era Summer Rae would have looked good.  I doubt Maryse could keep up with the women today on the roster. Having her back does nothing for me as a fan one bit. Most fans are going to look at Maryse associating with her husband The Miz & won't care about her.

[The Unknown Poster]

10 hours ago, iso_55 said:

Too many NXT wrestlers & tag teams this past Raw all at once. You don't sell it like that. Why is Barrin Corbin here? He has the charisma of a wet rag. Why isn't Joe or Balor here instead? I don't know much about the "And You Can't Teach That!" tag team other than the little guy is good on the stick. Now the Vaude Villains are in WWE. Too much, too fast.

I agree in theory.  Its not so much it's too many, just the wrong ones.  If it was a random RAW in June, they wouldnt have done that but being *the* RAW of the year, there is the trend to treat it like a season premiere.  Apollo Crews isnt ready.  He's a super athlete and will do fine but he isnt ready.

Corbin is a big zero to me.  On the same show you debut him where his gimmick is basically that he's tall, you debut someone even taller with a better physique, better hair, more charisma (Cass).

Enzo & Cass are great.  Not great workers.  But a great act.  Enzo is the type that could be in WWE for 20 years.  Cass is exactly what Vince likes.  Hopefully they take their time with him because you dont often get a guy that is 7 feet tall with that look who isnt a complete stiff.

Sometimes their call ups and the talent they use is for house show purposes, to fill out those shows.  So in their mind, they take an act they dont intend to really do anything with, give them a few minutes on RAW and it makes them "marketable" on the house shows.  There is merit to that.

Vaude Villains are decent workers and an interesting schtick but will end up in the Accession role sooner than later...a mid card tag team for the house shows.

They *should* have called up Joe for sure.  The thing with NXT is that its really expanded from its original premise.  Its not just a developmental territory now.  It's its own brand that tours and as a result has to be able to draw on those tours (It wouldnt surprise me if they sell the TV rights eventually too).  I think the idea with Balor is, sure he's more than ready to get called up but they cant take all the good workers from NXT.  I think thats the same idea with Joe.  He was signed to be a veteran worker who could help the younger talent while being a draw on the house shows.  Bobby Roode is likely the same motivation.

But as Hunter has said, its all about Vince.  If he wants someone called up, he's called up.  And he's a body guy.  Crews and Corbin are just what he loves.  So is Cass.  Joe isnt.  There were rumors that Joe was scheduled for a call up.  Nak is supposed to be called up sooner than later too.  And ofcourse we still have the Bullet Club about to debut.  So there are only so many spots. 

The success of AJ Styles has surprised Vince.  Two years ago WWE offered him a low ball developmental deal so he went to New Japan.  Now they offered him a bigger money deal and right to RAW.  Vince thought no one would know who he was and he's among the most popular on the house shows.  So that changes Vince's thinking a bit.

10 hours ago, iso_55 said:

I remember Maryse (barely) from 7 or 8 years ago. She was a pretty good wrestler but in that era Summer Rae would have looked good.  I doubt Maryse could keep up with the women today on the roster. Having her back does nothing for me as a fan one bit. Most fans are going to look at Maryse associating with her husband The Miz & won't care about her.

I dont know if she will wrestle regularly or at all.  But it makes sense to pair her with Miz.  It supports his gimmick as she looks glamorous and its similar to the role she played before she left.  She was very good in that role.  I'd give them a bodyguard too and push the gimmick hard.  The thing about Miz is, ignoring the fact that I actually really like him, is he's a very good soldier for WWE.  Because he has a TV background, he's a guy that knows how to do PR and loves doing it and that makes him well-liked and valuable to WWE.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

In case people not read Random Death Notice thread.

WWE is saddened by the news that Robert Windham, aka WWE Hall of Famer Blackjack Mulligan, has passed away.

Edited April 7, 2016 by FrostyWinnipeg

[The Unknown Poster]

18 hours ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

In case people not read Random Death Notice thread.

WWE is saddened by the news that Robert Windham, aka WWE Hall of Famer Blackjack Mulligan, has passed away.

Sons were Barry Windham and Kendall Windham, both wrestlers.  Barry was one of the very best in the world for a time.

Daughter married Mike Rotunda (IRS).  Blackjack's grandchildren are Windham (Bray Wyatt), Taylor (Bo Dallas) and Mika, all current members of WWE.

Something I didnt know until today - Blackjack's career basically ended when he and Kendal went to prison for counterfeiting!

[Atomic]

Excellent episode of RAW last night.  Nice to see them shake things up.  Highlights were Zayn vs Styles, Owens vs Cesaro, Gallows and Anderson appearance, Enzo and Cass promo.  Dr Phil was even pretty funny.  Apollo Crews is a stud in the ring.  I'd like to see how he is on the mic now.

Hell, even the main event was good.  What are they setting up with Reigns and Bray Wyatt?  Predictable ending would have had Bray turn on Reigns but they got through it as allies.

Edited April 12, 2016 by Atomic

[The Unknown Poster]

Ill sound like a negative nancy but I thought it was same old Raw with new guys.  The wrestling was excellent.  And its interesting how many new faces they are giving opportunities to.  And just how much Ring of Honor has impacted WWE.

But RAW shouldnt be multiple 5 star matches.  The PPV's should be the payoff with great matches.  RAW should have one or two really great matches and then ANGLES.  There were really no angles.  Bray/Roman...yeah sure, I guess.  Bray's 6th push.  Roman might be the most vanilla champion since I dont know when.

Crews should be in NXT until he has a gimmick and a personality.  Because the last thing he needs to be is "generic smiling babyface with hot finisher".  He's a more physically imposing Neville.

Enzo/Cass vs Dudley's might be the most interesting thing on the show.  And Owens.  Owens is always very good. 

Bullet Club debuting was good in that it finally happened.  And Uso's a re a good first team to work with to get them over.  But I guess I was hoping for them to do something.  Think about this:  You're an "invading" team hopping the barricade...and you attack the Uso's?  Not New Day.  Not Roman and Bray.  Not AJ.  The Uso's.

And the Shane gimmick is already blown.  All it was was any other RAW but instead of Hunter or Steph making heel friendly matches, you had Shane making face friendly matches.  *fart*.

I assume there is another shoe to drop with Bullet Club so we can wait til then to judge.  And Roman/Bray probably turns into a "they hate each other but they respect each other" face/face program.  Perhaps Bullet Club attacks Roman to help AJ, Wyatts save and we go to Wyatts/Bullet Club. 

But this face/face stuff needs to stop.  It doesnt work long term.