Wrestling

[The Unknown Poster]

Agree 100%.  And thats really the consensus of most industry people and fans.  Everything about WWE is so scripted.  Austin wrote his own material and came up with his own gimmick.  Recall that Vince's idea for Austin was "The Ringmaster" who was a technical wrestler than never talked (he had Ted Dibiase as a mouthpiece).  What a fail that was.  The Rock was rejected just like Roman until he begged to turn heel and was allowed to cut his own promos.

Vince and his cronies and even Hunter to a degree are too inside the "bubble".  They cant see the fans perspective and Vince is protected like the Emperor with no clothes.  People cant tell him he's wrong.  Why did Vince like Jim Ross?  Because Ross told him when he was wrong (and Ross was fired three or four times). 

It happens in local wrestling too where bookers and workers do and say things to make themselves or the other boys laugh. In WWE, its just like that except its designed to make Vince laugh or make Vince happy.

The excuse for never turning Cena was that he sold too much merch and they didnt want to lose the money (never mind that nWo and Austin were heels and sold tons of merch).  Whats the excuse with Roman?  Hes not a top guy.  He's not over.  Turn him.  Its pure stubbornness.  Worse, they go out of their way to cut the balls off the faces.  WWE has NO faces anymore.  Seth's turn was maliciously awful.  Ambrose was screwed until Roman's failed and by then it was almost too late.  They tripped and fell into AJ Styles who Vince didnt want and had no intention of pushing until he popped numbers on the house shows.

Wrestling is easy.  But the smarter and bigger they get, the smarter they think they are and the harder they make it on themselves.

[Goalie]

Everyone knows it's scripted now also, back in the day people only really had access to Meltzer and his newsletter, that wasn't a very large segment of the population really, now you can just log on to the computer and go to 1 of 100's or 1000's of sites and see all these insider news and info. WWE likes to treat their fans like they are dumb but reality is, that the WWE fans have evolved over time, but the WWE has not evolved with them. They still treat the fans like they are clueless morons who think the  business is somewhat real still, They don't listen to the fans, the fans beg beg beg for certain guys to get pushed, but WWE says NO. You keep saying NO over and over to your paying customer and that paying customer is just gonna say enough and stop watching. Judging by their ratings, lots of people have said enough is enough.

 

I feel that they need to listen to the fans, they don't and that's a major reason why they are what they are right now. Listen to your customers, WWE is the only business i can actually think of who blatantly and obviously says SCREW YOU to their customers. It's almost like they don't want to make more money or it's almost like Vince is truly just so out of touch that maybe he has no idea what makes a star in 2016... Nakamura is a star tho, What would Vince do with him tho? Probably ruin him... and turn him in to Funaki or something similar to that..He'd be a stereotype really instead of allowing to be himself. 

 

I look at the Cruiserweights as a great example as to their stupidity, I like the CW's, they are exciting, that CWC was very very good, very entertaining tournament and very good matches, I said it on twitter before to people who say, i used to love the CW's but for some reason, i'm just not that in to them anymore.. I said, it's because we were all expecting them to be allowed to go out there and do what they did on the CWC but Vince and his boys basically cut their balls off before they had the chance to do it... What makes the CW'S so unique is their ability to fly and go at a fast pace and just really, they are different. Vince has turned them in to basically, smaller roman reigns types who basically hit one or 2 big moves and that's it... But that's not what the CW'S are really all about is it. 

[The Unknown Poster]

The reason they dont listen to the fans is because they have convinced themselves that its just one city.

I watched the "True Story of the Royal Rumble" this past week (just came out) and it had a very telling scene.  When Roman won the Rumble and The Rock held his arm up and the fans boo'ed like crazy, they had multiple shots of the Gorilla position with Michael Hayes, Hunter and others all saying the same thing - "it is what it is" "its just one city" "A global company doesnt give in to one reaction in one city".

It shows a shocking lack of awareness.  Vince used to use MSG as his barometer.  However fans in MSG reacted, he took that as a sample of the larger audience.  But they really dont anymore.  But the fans "hijacking" shows and angles is a by-product of whittling the fans base down to the smarks and hardcores.

I dont really care about the CW either (though I have a hard time caring about much in WWE right now), but they're doing the right thing in how their booking it by pushing personalities and doing three title flips pretty quickly to generate interest.  Brian Kendrick was a great guy to use because he's a very good heel character.  And its really about creating content for the Network.  They need original shows, thus 205Live, and if they have the show, they have to push it on RAW, hence cruiserweights on RAW.

[The Unknown Poster]

 

[Goalie]

1 hour ago, The Unknown Poster said:

 

Gotta LOL at that one. 

[Goalie]

So I was bored this afternoon and watched tna total nonstop deletion and that's 2 hours I certainly regret. Funny lines at times but total garbage 

[The Unknown Poster]

I haven't seen the whole thing yet. They had teased other tag teams. Had they got the Bucks and even Demolition they would have been great. In fact Demolition would have been incredibly timely. 

[Goalie]

No bucks but the express that Rock N Roll showed up,  The Bravado brothers showed up (ROH team)... Not much else tho, Abyss and Crazy Steve murdered a couple people it seemed, Pretty brutal to watch tho, so much crappy editing, they tried to go the lucha underground route a bit in terms of the cinematic type of feel but it came across more so as a really cheap bad ultra cheap, like i wanna say Blair Witch type of camera work. I actually started to get a headache watching it. 

[The Unknown Poster]

I heard Helms (who works for TNA as an agent) did his 3 Count and Hurricane gimmicks. Be interesting to see if WWE he anything to say about that. 

[The Unknown Poster]

Jimmy Snuka today had his murder charges dropped due to mental incompetency.  Once a worker, always a worker.

[bigg jay]

TUP are you staying up late to watch Kenny headline the Tokyo Dome tonight?  I won't be able to catch it live unless i get up real early but i'm looking forward to seeing the match.

[The Unknown Poster]

1 hour ago, bigg jay said:

TUP are you staying up late to watch Kenny headline the Tokyo Dome tonight?  I won't be able to catch it live unless i get up real early but i'm looking forward to seeing the match.

You better believe it!  

we are 2 for 2 with Kenny winning titles in New Japan and bringing them to PCW in Winnipeg. I'm hoping for 3 for 3

Lots of reasons they should put Kenny over but many to put Okada over too. Should be great!

also if you stream New Japan world you can choose English commentary by Kevin Kelly and Winnipeg's (and former world champion and former PCW champion) Steve Corino. 

[The Unknown Poster]

If you want to see an amazing match, seek out this one. Okada vs Omega. Incredible. 

Very proud of Kenny even in defeat. It's setting up something even bigger. 

[bigg jay]

Some highlights courtesy of Sports Illustrated.

http://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2017/01/04/kenny-omega-kazuchika-okada-wrestle-kingdom-11-match-video

 

[bigg jay]

7 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

If you want to see an amazing match, seek out this one. Okada vs Omega. Incredible. 

Very proud of Kenny even in defeat. It's setting up something even bigger. 

Haven't seen the whole match yet but the people are raving about this one.  Did we get the MOTY 4 days into 2017?

[The Unknown Poster]

Not just match of the year maybe.

The preeminent journalist covering wrestling and MMA, Dave Meltzer called it the greatest match in pro wrestling history.  Said Omega is the best big match wrestler on the planet.  Said Omega could be the elusive special star WWE cant seem to make.  And gave it 6 stars out of 5.

Attendance was up at the Tokyo Dome over last year (this event is the WrestleMania of New Japan).  Subscriptions to New Japan's streaming service set a record for foreign views.  10,000 new subs came in the day of the show with 55% from the US.

Omega is proving himself to be the foreign draw New Japan needs and a huge draw to North American wrestling fans.  And this while not really being pushed as a main event guy for very long.  Last year at this time, he lost the Junior Title in a mid-card match.  The sky is the limit for him.

WWE has long wanted Omega.  And he has long wanted to stick with New Japan and become a legend.  My suspcions have been he would consider WWE as an option down the road but he's always measured his success in wrestling by making it in Japan.

WWE is going to back up a brinks truck to Omega's home and dump a pile of money on him.  He's not a money guy and I'd suspect would take less to stay with New Japan but he also knows his own value and will want to be respected for that value.  He's going to be very rich. 

A lot of older fans and casual fans today will recognize names like Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart, Steve Austin.  They will recognize Kenny Omega in the same way ten years from now. 

A lot of comparisons with AJ Styles who, when his contract with TNA expired, WWE didnt even want.  Two years in New Japan and Styles signed a contract with WWE and by-passed NXT, going straight to the main roster.  But Vince still wasnt sold on Styles until his house shows saw an increase in attendance.  The difference with Kenny is, if he ever signs with WWE, he will walk onto RAW and be a top guy from day one.

On a personal note, when I see local wrestlers mention Kenny on Facebook and put him over and talk about how they always knew he'd make it, it makes me laugh.  Some of us knew he'd make it.  But a lot of these guys are trying to connect themselves to someone who they pissed on for years.

Here's a quick story for you.  In 2003, I had to convince our promotions then-booker to make Omega a top star.  That booker quit a few months later before he gave Kenny the top spot.  The second I took over, I ear-marked Kenny to win his first heavyweight title.  And the veteran champion at the time (who might be familar to some fans) refused to put him over.

Another "veteran" said Kenny and his close friends didnt know how to get over.  Called them "Vanilla Midgets" (ie. too small, too bland). 

Kenny just did Jericho's podcast over the holidays and was asked about working indie promotions.  He said he only works for one, PCW (ours) because its like coming home. 

If you're a wrestling fan, when Kenny appears in Winnipeg, do yourself the favour of seeing him live so when he's in the main event of WrestleMania, you can say you saw him wrestling in a bar in Winnipeg.

Speaking of which, PCW is this Saturday at Doubles Bar.  Kenny wont be there.  But it will still be good.

[Brandon]

I remember watching Omega at the U of W ... must of been near 10 years ago.     I think he was in a match with Dan Severn in a "shoot" which was dismal... however his other matches with the masked wrestler (name escapes me)  were fantastic back then. 

The guy definitely was on another level compared to the local talent.

I do find local vets giving advice to be hilarious as many of the ones that I saw were absolutely terrible in the ring and looked like complete garbage (fat bloated and in terrible shape).   

[The Unknown Poster]

46 minutes ago, Brandon said:

I remember watching Omega at the U of W ... must of been near 10 years ago.     I think he was in a match with Dan Severn in a "shoot" which was dismal... however his other matches with the masked wrestler (name escapes me)  were fantastic back then. 

The guy definitely was on another level compared to the local talent.

I do find local vets giving advice to be hilarious as many of the ones that I saw were absolutely terrible in the ring and looked like complete garbage (fat bloated and in terrible shape).   

Some fat bloated workers can give tremendous advice.  Wrestling is not unique from sport in that you have to be a great performer to give advice.  You can be a bad performer but have knowledge and insight.

What happened locally was, Kenny came along when the business was changing from old to new.  And especially in Indie wrestling, the old try to hang on.  Same thing in WWE too with guys protecting their spot and cutting off young talent, but in WWE they will be pushed out.  In Indie wrestling, the old guys usually control the promotions.  That's why a lot of them didnt like me initially because I pushed young talent and "disrespected" the vets (I didnt really, I had lots of vets). 

A local guy named Robby Royce was one of the exceptions.  A veteran who others said was ahead of his time because he was trying to work like Shawn Michaels when everyone else was trying to work "old school".  He always saw the talent in guys like Kenny and smartly wanted to work with them.  And he worked with Kenny a lot in my promotion.

But the guys who had WWE dreams but were too insecure to cheer for their fellow wrestlers to make it, are the guys I mean, the ones that buried Kenny because they knew he was more talented but he wasnt their buddy.  I bet on Omega in 2003 and I bet on a winner.

[The Unknown Poster]

TNA has been sold to Anthem (owned by the Asper's Fight Network).  Dixie Carter is on some board of Anthem but out of power.

They have also brought back Jeff Jarrett and Dutch Mantel (Zeb)

[Goalie]

Omega is a good guy. Very fan friendly on twitter. Have met him a couple times and comes across as genuine.  I'd actually consider him to be somewhat of a nerd lol but not in a bad way at all. Kid has talent... I remember years ago... people talking about the up and comers and I always remember saying... Kenny Omega.  Others I knew would say Jack Evans... Teddy Hart... AJ Styles even... lots of people really doubted Omega it seemed.  He's proven them all wrong. I think he goes to WWE eventually but not sure when. I think long term everyone in wrestling.. their goal is to be in WWE. If someone told me 5 years ago even that AJ Styles would be in WWE or Sting would have made appearances... I'd have said... you are full of it. But... there they are and were and 1 day Omega will be there also. I think the fact that he was there once and told them he wants to see what he can do on his own... and then see what happens. .. I think vince and hhh probably respect him for that cuz he's gone out and did what he apparently told them he was going to do. 

Edited January 6, 2017 by Goalie

[Goalie]

Another example of why you never say never in the wrestling business 

 

[The Unknown Poster]

Honestly his goal isn't WWE. His goal is proving he's the best in the world and WWE is about being the most known but not always the best. 

There is more money long term there because you can be there forever and they can market you forever. Kenny isn't a money guy. But goals change as you age. 

If anything I could see WWE seeming like a new challenge to him once he conquers Japan.

Kenny always laid low. People that really knew him and weren't insecure competitors knew he was going to be a star. Think back years. I vividly remember the moment I said whoa this kid has talent. He was 17 working a bar show he wasn't allowed to. Doing moonsaults off railings. 

He was the first person to email me when our booker quit in 2003 to say we can reinvent things. 

But he never really sought attention like some of those other "darlings" did. In fact I was trying to market him years ago and he didn't want it. He's a shy guy if you can believe it.  

Hearing him on the podcast with Callis and Jericho saying there is only one indie he works for in the world and that's is....fills me with pride. He's given back to us more than he ever needed to but he's fiercely loyal to those who believed in him. 

The match is on YouTube for those that havent seen it.  Only the second match of all time to earn 6 stars (out of 5!)  

   

 

[Mike]

Best wrestling match I've ever seen, that's for sure.

Not a huge NJPW fan. Just haven't invested the time to learn about it.

But Kenny Omega has me sold. I've actually run into Kenny a couple times and I've never had it in me to pester him and say I was a fan, he just seems to be so private. He came into my office once for some information and introduced himself as Tyson (which I'd expect) and this was after I'd run into him at the gym a couple times. I think he must've known by the way I was temporarily starstruck that I knew who he was, but I didn't want to bother him.

I think I'm going to get one of his shirts just to show some support. The guy is a legend.

[The Unknown Poster]

6 minutes ago, Mike said:

Best wrestling match I've ever seen, that's for sure.

Not a huge NJPW fan. Just haven't invested the time to learn about it.

But Kenny Omega has me sold. I've actually run into Kenny a couple times and I've never had it in me to pester him and say I was a fan, he just seems to be so private. He came into my office once for some information and introduced himself as Tyson (which I'd expect) and this was after I'd run into him at the gym a couple times. I think he must've known by the way I was temporarily starstruck that I knew who he was, but I didn't want to bother him.

I think I'm going to get one of his shirts just to show some support. The guy is a legend.

Great post.  He's very private but very cordial with fans.  He'd be happy to hear you're a fan.

He's a top seller on Pro Wrestling T's.  And when he's here he usually has a few items of merch with him (that sells immediately).  We're actually launching our own store soon and have a couple of new, exclusive Omega designs.

He got the internet in a tizzy this morning by saying he was taking a step back from Japan and considering his options... lol

[Mike]

Just now, The Unknown Poster said:

Great post.  He's very private but very cordial with fans.  He'd be happy to hear you're a fan.

He's a top seller on Pro Wrestling T's.  And when he's here he usually has a few items of merch with him (that sells immediately).  We're actually launching our own store soon and have a couple of new, exclusive Omega designs.

He got the internet in a tizzy this morning by saying he was taking a step back from Japan and considering his options... lol

Any chance you could PM me some deets?