Wrestling

[The Unknown Poster]

Well, to be fair DX really kicked off the attitude era.  And HBK had a huge influence even though he flamed out so quickly.  It came down to choosing between HBK and Hart and Vince chose HBK.  Hart didnt like the really extreme stuff of the attitude era so had Vince chosen Hart, chances are they dont go as far with the attitude stuff.  Also possible HBK leaves but he had a long term deal so thats doubtful.

But yes, Michaels missed most of it.  it was really the Hunter-led DX that pushed the envelope but Michaels was there for the start of it.

[Atomic]

Yeah I don't think you can talk about the Attitude era without mentioning the sexual aspect of things led by guys like Godfather, Val Venis and to a lesser extent Goldust.  That was a huge part of what made the Attitude era what it was.

[The Unknown Poster]

Nikki Bella will be on the new season of Dancing with the Stars.

[The Unknown Poster]

Wrestler Sexy Star (Francine Orr/ Los Angeles Times/TNS)

The fight got a little too real for a Winnipeg-born professional wrestler at a major Mexican wrestling card Saturday, after she was injured in what many are saying was a malicious attempt by her opponent to hurt her.

The incident has left the wrestling world up in arms and sparked coverage in publications as far ranging as niche websites to Rolling Stone, with many suggesting the perpetrator of the attack could be blacklisted from the sport entirely.

IMPACT WRESTLING

Winnipeg-born Holly Letkeman, who goes by the name Rosemary.

Holly Letkeman was born in Winnipeg in 1983 and entered the world of professional wrestling in 2008, where she currently fights under the name Rosemary. Over the weekend she was involved in the TripleMania XXV event in Mexico City, which is the one of the largest annual shows in the country.

She was fighting in a four-way women’s match for the "Queen of Queens" title, when all of a sudden one of the wrestlers began to go off-script.

At the end of the match Mexican wrestler Sexy Star placed Letkeman in an armbar that was dangerously real.

Video from the event, which was seen by more people than usual since it was streamed by an Amazon-owned company, shows Letkeman yelling in pain and repeatedly tapping out as her elbow is hyper-extended.

Despite the referee calling the match and the final bell ringing out, Star continued to hold Letkeman in the armbar. About eight seconds after the match finishes the referee finally manages to pry open Star’s grip on Letkeman’s arm, only to have her reapply the armbar and hold it for a few more seconds.

The incident left Letkeman rolling around in pain as Star walked around the ring in celebration of her victory. It was a short lived win for Star, however, as the wrestling world quickly turned on her and some of her future bookings were dropped.

"If you take liberties with someone’s body when they are giving it to you and trusting you to keep them safe, you are not tough. You are an ass----. And you don’t belong in this business," wrote Letkeman in one of two public statements she’s made since the incident.

An outpouring of support for Letkeman was posted to social media by well-known figures in the wrestling world, while Star was the target of many vitriolic comments and denunciations.

When Andrew Shallcross, promoter of an independent professional wrestling company in Winnipeg, first saw the video, he couldn’t believe what he was seeing.

"I immediately wondered if it was actually true or if it was an elaborate story line. When I realized it was true, I was shocked and disappointed. It’s completely unprofessional and cowardly. It would not be accepted by any wrestling promotion in the world," he said.

"I would never book that person again. We’ve seen people die or be paralyzed in the ring. It can happen. This is a dangerous sport. And you have to co-operate and trust your opponent. Obviously, that trust was violated."

Jackie Lee, a multi-year professional wrestler living in Winnipeg, agrees with Shallcross and admits he wouldn’t be comfortable getting in the ring with someone who had a documented history of purposely injuring an opponent.

"It takes two to tango and you have to put your trust in your opponent because you’re taking care of their body and their taking care of yours. It’s like going in a car ride with your friend, where you trust them to drive safely, because you’re putting your life in their hands in a way," Lee said.

While initial reports on the extent of Rosemary’s injury varied in severity, she’s now said that she has a "strained tricep/bicep with swelling around the area" and will be out of the ring until a doctor allows her to return to the sport.

In the statement she made it clear she would no longer be addressing the incident.

ryan.thorpe@freepress.mb.ca

Edited August 31, 2017 by The Unknown Poster

[Atomic]

Well the Shallcross guy seems like a real piece of work, that's for sure

[The Unknown Poster]

Just now, Atomic said:

Well the Shallcross guy seems like a real piece of work, that's for sure

Never trust a word that guy says.

[The Unknown Poster]

In other news, GFW (TNA) has re-upped with POP TV for another year (through next year).  This is a good news/bad news scenario.  Jeff Jarrett had openly talked of needing a better cable partner and being paid for their content (POP does not pay them).  Clearly, they could not find a cable partner willing to pay them or one that was better than POP.  The good news is, POP is willing to keep them.

[The Unknown Poster]

Sexy Star has issued a statement (translated via google):

"These days have been very difficult for me. On Saturday I had a championship fight; Was very hard. I think it all went out of hand. I do not know, it's a situation that right now I'm a bit confused. I want to be silent and when I feel it is time, touch the subject. Men, women, they want to finish me; Retire from this sport. I'm here; As I said at the outset: I will not stop, on behalf of all women who have been mistreated, physically or psychologically. I think I have to be stronger. If at that moment I went through a depression and left, I will leave this one too. I was doing what I had to do, what people deserve, give me a claw until the end. That happened, I gave it up. It seems that the girl is injured; I do not know, I do not know. Is the only that i can say."

***What a terrible statement, assuming A LOT wasn't lost via translation.

[Brandon]

12 hours ago, Goalie said:

But if you are including guys and gimmicks who were the definition of attitude era... Val Venis and Godfather definitely would be there. 

So you're suggesting any sexual innuendo gimmicks defined that era?

If you are only looking for that then I'd say Sable would be way bigger then Val Venis or the Godfather.  

[Goalie]

33 minutes ago, Brandon said:

So you're suggesting any sexual innuendo gimmicks defined that era?

If you are only looking for that then I'd say Sable would be way bigger then Val Venis or the Godfather.  

Sable Val Godfather... I mean really.. A porn star and pimp wouldnt define the attitude era? Cmon. 

[Atomic]

8 hours ago, Brandon said:

So you're suggesting any sexual innuendo gimmicks defined that era?

If you are only looking for that then I'd say Sable would be way bigger then Val Venis or the Godfather.  

Sable is definitely up there as well.  Right up with Jerry Lawler yelling "Puppies!!"

[The Unknown Poster]

Sable was huge.  Flamed out early too.  But huge.  She tried to leave.  She did playboy which was one of playboy's top selling issues ever.  Then started balking at stuff WWE wanted her to do.  She claimed she wasnt a worker.  Claimed sexual harassment.  She tried to get out of her contract.  She made a deal with Playboy outside of WWE which WWE blocked.  She ended up front row at a WCW Nitro show.  If I recall, there was a lesbian angle WWE wanted her to do and she refused.  So of course, when she eventually returned to WWE years later, first thing she does is kiss a woman. 

All those guys are good example of the Attitude era because its when WWE went from PG to TV14 or whatever it was.  Vince Russo might be the defining factor of that era with his crash TV style booking.  Well, really Austin and Rock and Mr McMahon are the defining factors.  But everyone else were key parts too.

[Taynted_Fayth]

I think the rock's had the longest lasting impact from the attitude era. He raised the bar in doing promo's that hasn't been matched since.   I think CM Punk, corporate HHH and to some extent Cena have been the closest since but it was too few and far in between. The Rock was bringing it week to week.  Cena has been probably the most consistent (until recently) but his promos get far too repetitive 

[Atomic]

The Rock is the greatest talent to ever grace a WWE ring.  Between him, Stone Cold, and DX, the entertainment value was through the roof every single week.

Now we get a bunch of scrawny or fat guys who can't cut a promo but they're "great workers".  And ratings are in the toilet.

[Goalie]

To be fair lots of them can cut a promo... Its just that WWE heavily scripts them. They didnt do that in the attitude era. 

[The Unknown Poster]

Austin was the biggest star ever in wrestling.  Rock the biggest star over-all when you factor in mainstream and cross over.

DX was awesome.  We used to pop big time when that green X appeared on screen to start their intro music.  And Bret Hart was the perfect foil for them.  1997 WWE was tremendous.

WWE actually got even better after Russo went to WCW.  Chris Kreski doesnt get enough love as booker.  He worked under Russo for awhile and then got bumped up after Russo left.  He used to take flak for storyboarding his angles with the intent of making sure they made sense.  But WWE's best business was when Kreski was booker.  He was pushed out when Vince promoted Steph.  Ironically, since Kreski was a legit Hollywood guy, it led to Steph transitioning WWE creative from "wrestling people" to Hollywood people which started the downward slide.

WCW was really ahead of its time though.  nWo led to DX which did it better.  Eric Bischoff led to Mr McMahon who did it better.  etc.

To be fair, one of my favorite PPV's ever was Survivor Series 98 whch was a Russo booked PPV.  It was the WWE title tournament and had so many story lines that came together.  I use it as an example of a story-centric PPV (more angles, then wrestling).  Awesome story-driven PPV.

[Atomic]

6 minutes ago, Goalie said:

To be fair lots of them can cut a promo... Its just that WWE heavily scripts them. They didnt do that in the attitude era. 

So how do you know they can cut a promo if they never show it?

[The Unknown Poster]

6 minutes ago, Goalie said:

To be fair lots of them can cut a promo... Its just that WWE heavily scripts them. They didnt do that in the attitude era. 

Yup.  The worst thing about modern wrestling.  When the older guys like Austin say today's workers have to fight for their ideas and take the bull by the horns etc, its easier said then done when everything is so heavily scripted and you get heat for doing anything off script.

[Atomic]

Just now, The Unknown Poster said:

Yup.  The worst thing about modern wrestling.  When the older guys like Austin say today's workers have to fight for their ideas and take the bull by the horns etc, its easier said then done when everything is so heavily scripted and you get heat for doing anything off script.

That's why there needs to be stronger rival promotions.  If there is a legitimate threat of talent leaving, the talent has more power to call the shots.  In my opinion.

[Goalie]

1 minute ago, Atomic said:

So how do you know they can cut a promo if they never show it?

Watch them in PWG or ROH or elsewhere where they had the freedom to cut a promo. Straight fire... Owens Joe and a bunch others can all talk. 

[Goalie]

1 minute ago, Atomic said:

That's why there needs to be stronger rival promotions.  If there is a legitimate threat of talent leaving, the talent has more power to call the shots.  In my opinion.

Unfortunately that option doesnt exist... New Japan maybe but Americans will never accept Japanese wrestling. 

[Taynted_Fayth]

2 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Unfortunately that option doesnt exist... New Japan maybe but Americans will never accept Japanese wrestling. 

I think you could get another but you'd need the perfect situation like Ted Turner - a billionaire with his own TV network ready and willing to invest the time and resources needed for it to grow.  TNA if it had that kind of backing could have done much better, but seems like from the get go it was flying by the seat of it's pants hoping it would self itself fast enough to become something relevant, at least more then it was. That's why when I hear of Jeff Jarrett and the struggles to get a decent TV contract,  imo it'll never be anything more then a glorified indy program

[Atomic]

I think ROH has the potential to be great if someone with deep pockets came in and poured some money into it.  But they have to pick the right time... maybe when Vince steps away from WWE or dies and there is some turmoil.

[Taynted_Fayth]

7 minutes ago, Atomic said:

I think ROH has the potential to be great if someone with deep pockets came in and poured some money into it.  But they have to pick the right time... maybe when Vince steps away from WWE or dies and there is some turmoil.

I think so too, possibly even TNA if they got their financials in order,  but they may have burnt a lot of bridges with the way things have been going there over the years and wrestlers being ripped off. 

If ROH could offer competitive $ to their employees I think you'd see a lot of wrestlers jump ship.  The idea of being a bigger fish in a smaller pond for equal - slightly less would sure appeal to some especially if they aren't being pushed in anyway in WWE

[The Unknown Poster]

29 minutes ago, Atomic said:

That's why there needs to be stronger rival promotions.  If there is a legitimate threat of talent leaving, the talent has more power to call the shots.  In my opinion.

Absolutely.  Will never happen again now.  New Japan is the 2nd largest promotion in the world and makes a fraction of the revenue WWE does.  Plus, anyone that takes even a small bite out of WWE will feel their wrath swiftly and harshly.  New Japan is a bit different because they would likely not be at risk from WWE in Japan.  But WWE can sign away most of their stars if they want to.

20 minutes ago, Atomic said:

I think ROH has the potential to be great if someone with deep pockets came in and poured some money into it.  But they have to pick the right time... maybe when Vince steps away from WWE or dies and there is some turmoil.

ROH's parent is richer than WWE with their own television network.  If they wanted to compete, they could.  They don't.  Because building ROH up to compete would be such a massive money loser in the beginning.  Ted Turner loved wrestling so much, he was the only thing protecting WCW in the early going of his ownership.  Then ofcourse, WCW became Turner's bright star for awhile.  Even when it was collapsing, Turner likely would have kept it but by then he had no power.

Turner had a non compete on wrestling and when it was over, he immediately had his lieutenants look into starting up a promotion again to compete with WWE.  Turner didnt want to do it unless it could compete.  His people came back and said he'd lose $50 million to build it up and no guarantee of success.  That ended Turner's interest.

25 minutes ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

I think you could get another but you'd need the perfect situation like Ted Turner - a billionaire with his own TV network ready and willing to invest the time and resources needed for it to grow. 

Yup.  When wrestling was still hot, after WCW died, there was interest.  Rupert Murdoch was interested.  Hogan & Bischoff were somewhat linked to that idea.  FOX considered airing a Bischoff/Hogan promotion.  But both those guys knew, if you want to get into wrestling, dont play with your own money.  When Bischoff was going to buy WCW (with Fusient Media's money), the idea was sound.  It was the cancelling of WCW TV programming that killed it.

 

16 minutes ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

I think so too, possibly even TNA if they got their financials in order,  but they may have burnt a lot of bridges with the way things have been going there over the years and wrestlers being ripped off. 

If ROH could offer competitive $ to their employees I think you'd see a lot of wrestlers jump ship.  The idea of being a bigger fish in a smaller pond for equal - slightly less would sure appeal to some especially if they aren't being pushed in anyway in WWE

TNA will never, ever, ever compete now.  Its over.  No one wants wrestling.  Jarrett, with Anthem (Asper's) behind him couldnt interest any US networks in airing Impact for any sort of decent financials.  TNA reportedly lost over $30 million.  The only reason they survived was because Dixie Carter's parents own an oil company.  Even then, they couldn't compete.  TNA was actually dead a few weeks after they started in 2002 because one of their employees lied about the amount of revenue they were generating off PPV and when the real money came in, they were near bankruptcy.  Dixie's dad saved the day.

If TNA was on Spike still, they'd be viable.  But not competitive.  WWE makes over $700 million a year in revenue.  No one can compete.  It would take WWE collapsing down to someone else's level before there will be competition or a major, major conglomerate suddenly being interested and willing to invest.  Disney has long been considered a viable option to buy WWE.  Or a major touring company like the one that bought UFC.

But the problem is, there are few stars left.  For a company to start up tomorrow, they'd have to create new stars.  Yes, they could sign Omega and the Bucks to a lucrative exlusive.  But who else?  Cody.  Ryback.  They just aren't big enough.

What ROH does with New Japan is sort of the only way, but again, neither one is competing with WWE.