Wrestling

[bigg jay]

21 minutes ago, Brandon said:

When he was a blade runner he was massive like Warrior... next year he looked like he shedded 50 lbs of muscles and was lean and not bulky.    It just amazes me how a body can change so fast.    

Similar to when Ahmed Johnson went to WCW and his belly was absolutely massive.

I don't recall the size difference being that big (at least initially... this is Blade Runner Sting (1986) vs NWA Sting (1988)

  vs

[JCon]

NWA Sting was my favorite Sting. I never really got into the "Crow" Sting but liked the story-lines where he was sneaking in and attacking the NWO. 

[The Unknown Poster]

He shrunk more when he was Crow sting.  He was older and going through some personal stuff.  When he showed up for Starrcade 97, he was soft and out of shape.  Thats the motivation for Hogan changing his mind about doing a clean job.  Totally ridiculous.  The angle had been built up amazingly for a year and the fans were ready for Sting to finally beat Hogan.

Hogan said Sting wasnt a professional, didnt take it seriously and didnt deserve.  I think it was Bisch that also felt Sting let them down by showing up out of shape (it wasnt like he was fat...and his gimmick wore a body suit so not a huge deal).

The storyline was also Bret Hart's first big show in WCW.  Referee Nick Patrick was supposed to do a fast three count on Sting, Hart would come down and say he wasnt going to allow a ref to screw a wrestler like he was screwed (a few weeks earlier in Montreal) and re-start the match.  But Hogan had gone to Patrick and told him to do a normal three count.  So the end result was Sting got dominated and pinned cleanly and Hart looked like an idiot re-starting the match and it appeared Hogan, the heel, was screwed.

Crow Sting was amazing story-telling but I agree, once he was back for good, it sort of had a short shelf life.  But him dropping from the ceiling was crazy and he did it so often.  When you consider what happened to Owen later, its really incredible Sting did those stunts.  He even dropped from a chopper and another time, dropped, hooked another wrestler (I think DDP) and they both ascended into the rafters.  Yikes.

[Brandon]

My fuzzy memory has Sting first words as Crow Sting as something really cheesy and bad and it kind of killed the gimmick after all the long hype.

Also for finishing moves...   no love for the Razor's Edge?

[JCon]

2 minutes ago, Brandon said:

My fuzzy memory has Sting first words as Crow Sting as something really cheesy and bad and it kind of killed the gimmick after all the long hype.

Also for finishing moves...   no love for the Razor's Edge?

That was a good one but I preferred the Jackknife Powerbomb... if we're talking Wolfpack. 

 

[bb.king]

5 hours ago, JCon said:

Sweet Chin Music is one of my favorite finishing moves of all time. Simple and looks great. It didn't require too much build up (except the foot stomp bit). 

Also, the Stinger Splash. Not exactly Sting's finishing move but I loved when he did it back in the NWA, then WCW, days. 

 

A question for all: What are your favorite finishing or "signature" moves? 

I was always a fan of the DDT, back in the day of Jake Roberts when it was a finishing move and not just another move in the middle of a match. When I first saw Jake Roberts perform the move it looked devastating, and it was one of those moves that didn't require an elaborate setup, although he always added a few theatrics.

[The Unknown Poster]

2 minutes ago, bb.king said:

I was always a fan of the DDT, back in the day of Jake Roberts when it was a finishing move and not just another move in the middle of a match. When I first saw Jake Roberts perform the move it looked devastating, and it was one of those moves that didn't require an elaborate setup, although he always added a few theatrics.

A great move in the days when finishing moves actually finished matches.  When Jake did the short-arm clothesline, the crowd immediately jumped to their feets and began yelling DDT...and then he gave the sign for it.  Fantastic.  Arn Anderson had a heck of a DDT as well and used it to finish matches.  If you watch video of Arn hitting it, same as Jake, as soon as he set up for it, the crowd buzzed.

Some variations over the years have been great.  The Rock did the float-over DDT (didnt always hit it very well).  Shane does that one too.  

[Brandon]

39 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

A great move in the days when finishing moves actually finished matches.  When Jake did the short-arm clothesline, the crowd immediately jumped to their feets and began yelling DDT...and then he gave the sign for it.  Fantastic.  Arn Anderson had a heck of a DDT as well and used it to finish matches.  If you watch video of Arn hitting it, same as Jake, as soon as he set up for it, the crowd buzzed.

Some variations over the years have been great.  The Rock did the float-over DDT (didnt always hit it very well).  Shane does that one too.  

Didn't Gangrel have a nice modified DDT finisher?

[The Unknown Poster]

2 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Didn't Gangrel have a nice modified DDT finisher?

Yup, The Impaler (leaping DDT).  Windham did the leaping DDT as well (I think he swung the guy around as he did it).

As an aside, Gangrel (The Brood era), had one of the best intros ever.

When I was kid I loved the Claw Hold.  When Braon Von Raschke put it on, it terrified me.  The Von Erich's used the Claw as well and Windham did the "body claw" (Stomach Claw).

Funny local story, we had a wrestler who was never a top guy but I always liked him (he had several tag title and secondary title reigns).  We wanted to freshen him up and I thought he looked a bit like a Windham, so I told him we were going to call him Kevin (his real name) Windham.  And I asked him to do all Barry's moves (Stomach Claw, Leaping DDT, lariat, Superplex etc).  He argued in favour of not using "Windham" but did the moves....all except the Stomach Claw because someone told him it was stupid and would never get over.

Fast forward a couple of years and a clique in our local promotion were all really good workers and friends and they decided to take random moves and try to get them over.  For example, one guy chose the Screaming Toe Hold, which he got over huge.  Well, one of the team members was away for a few shows so the rest of the team made up a story that he was in Japan learning the secrets of the dreaded Stomach Claw.  They'd say this every week on the show.  When the guy finally returned, they told him what they had done and said he had to use the hold now.

So he's wrestling and at the right moment reaches into his tights and pulls out a glove (someone had an extra pair as part of a rarely-used masked gimmick).  And the crowd went nuts.  So he began using it as a finisher and it was super over.

The best part of the story is, he was asked to play the part of Kenny Omega's opponent in a video we call the Cottage Country Match.  Kenny was being booked in Japan against Kota Ibushi who was called the Anywhere Champion with the gimmick he defended the title "anywhere".  So they asked Kenny to film a match they could use to hype him as the Anywhere Champion of Canada.  

As an aside, when the video was posted online, the local goofballs all derided it as "exposing the business", "backyard", "not taking it seriously"...until they realized it was part of Kenny getting booked in Japan.  Anyway....long story short....Kenny arrives in Japan and all anyone wants to talk about is "Mike Angels" (the guy he worked who he called the Anywhere Champion of Canada....who Kenny beat).   Everyone bought him as this major star.  "Do you know him," they asked.  "Can you get him to come here?"

So Mike gets booked in Japan.  He arrives and the promotion is filming vignettes and they have a bag of apples.  They think the whole Stomach Claw thing is legit and are interviewing him and ask him to smash an apple with his claw.  He takes the apple and is thinking "If I dont smash this friggen apple, my Japanese career is over..."   He begins squeezing.  "Please God, break this ******* apple..."   And suddenly the Apple explodes in a million pieces and everyone watching is oohing and awwwing.  

He said after the crew left, he picked up a few more apples and couldnt get another one to smash.  

Stomach Claw!

[bigg jay]

1 hour ago, The Unknown Poster said:

The best part of the story is, he was asked to play the part of Kenny Omega's opponent in a video we call the Cottage Country Match.  Kenny was being booked in Japan against Kota Ibushi who was called the Anywhere Champion with the gimmick he defended the title "anywhere".  So they asked Kenny to film a match they could use to hype him as the Anywhere Champion of Canada.  

Funny you mention this... meltzer just retweeted this, even though it's a couple years old.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

This is easily one of the best finishers of all time.  Looks legit devastating - 200+ pounds crashing down on your chest and throat.

 

Edited September 22, 2018 by blueandgoldguy

[SpeedFlex27]

13 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Superkick is definitely up there.  I actually use it as a catch-all when giving direction (ie. "hit the ring, superkick,...") meaning a quick, visually strong move.   

Stonecold Stunner also a favourite.  I had hoped WWE would give Ronda Rousey the stunner.  Its quick, visually impressive, easy to hit etc.  Ronda's current move requires too long to set up and cant really be done with multiple people.

I'm also partial to the Alabama Jam, Spinebuster Slam, Superplex (you can tell Im a fan of old school JCP/NWA - Eaton, Anderson, Windham).

Diesel's Power Bomb. 

[The Unknown Poster]

Record low rating

 

[ediger]

woah. That's a remarkably crappy number. Was there something they were going against that might explain it? The Latin Grammys? A rerun of Nash Bridges?

[The Unknown Poster]

4 hours ago, ediger said:

woah. That's a remarkably crappy number. Was there something they were going against that might explain it? The Latin Grammys? A rerun of Nash Bridges?

Strong NFL game and season premieres but those happen every year and RAW still trends down.  Its been trending down for a couple of years.  One thing WWE is very good at is minimizing these things.  Vince used to be very simple when it came to what he considered key metrics -house show attendance & ratings.  Usually house show attendance would flatten out before TV ratings but it showed you a down turn was coming.

Now, WWE literally doesnt care (at least not publicly) about any of those things that used to be indicators of softening interest because they are profitable.  Whereas a bad rating would see immediately response in terms of a creative change or a bad buy rate would see immediate change, they think far more big picture.  

Its the same with Roman.  Whereas in the past, Vince would have changed direction immediately, he saw Cena get boo'ed and still sell a ton of merch so he doesnt trust fan response anymore.

WWE is hugely profitable and with the TV deals, will be for years but I'd be concerned about the ratings if I were them.  To me, sure you can have soft ratings and still make a massive profit but why not make a massive profit and be more creative and interesting?   When New Japan, All In etc do big numbers, its not because they have a corporate machine behind it like WWE...its creative (story-telling and talent).  WWE should learn from it.

There has to be that fear if you're Kenny, Bucks etc about going there when they promise you the world but you see they wont change.

[Brandon]

49 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

 To me, sure you can have soft ratings and still make a massive profit but why not make a massive profit and be more creative and interesting?   When New Japan, All In etc do big numbers, its not because they have a corporate machine behind it like WWE...its creative (story-telling and talent).  WWE should learn from it.

I'd assume like most big businesses they follow the guaranteed path rather then the "potentially risky" path.    This isn't uncommon in other industries.   Closest parallel I think is video games...  developer catches fire makes a good game...  big company buys them out and barfs out the same thing year after year.    Original teams leave to be creative somewhere else....  franchise continues on year after year with the same old same old because it's easy guaranteed sales.   It sucks.

[The Unknown Poster]

8 minutes ago, Brandon said:

I'd assume like most big businesses they follow the guaranteed path rather then the "potentially risky" path.    This isn't uncommon in other industries.   Closest parallel I think is video games...  developer catches fire makes a good game...  big company buys them out and barfs out the same thing year after year.    Original teams leave to be creative somewhere else....  franchise continues on year after year with the same old same old because it's easy guaranteed sales.   It sucks.

Yeah, I dont disagree that is what they do.  Its counter to the way Vince built WWE in the first place.  Playing it safe and raking in money is great and no one is suggesting they go back to TV-14.  But RAW is so boring, long, formulaic...it lacks sizzle, its not cool, most of it seems very cookie cutter.  Its almost like a 3 hour infomercial for WWE the company.

Changing creative to be more interesting wouldnt be a risk.  At some point, they will chisel their audience down.  If rights fees ever take a dive, there go their profits.  But there is talk the whole point of WWE right now is to set up for a sale to a conglomerate.  

All the talk from behind the scenes is that the writers arent bad, its just that their audience is Vince, not the fans.  And that he, at his age, just doesnt have it anymore.

[Brandon]

Do you think they try to sell similar to the UFC ?  

 

[The Unknown Poster]

10 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Do you think they try to sell similar to the UFC ?  

 

I would guess more  so a current media conglomerate.  Many fans joke about Disney buying them.  They've openly said they are open to offers and as a publicly traded company, they are obligated to do whats best for shareholders.  Saying that, they are very over-valued right now.  If they got a $7 billion offer, theyd almost have to sell.  But as the new owners of UFC are finding out, spending billions creates large debt.  The new TV deals give WWE a lot of cash for the foreseeable future though.

I imagine any purchase would be similar to UFC in the sense, they'd want Vince, Hunter & Steph to continue on in their roles.  Its really hard to say.  I would think Hunter & Steph want to keep it in the family.  They often talk about the legacy for their children.  But if they turned down a major offer, it would tank the share price (I guess...Im no stock market expert)

[The Unknown Poster]

also happy birthday to the late great Eddie Guerrero! 

[ediger]

6 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

also happy birthday to the late great Eddie Guerrero! 

Sweet jesus!

Anyway, I'm hearing this rumour that October 19th is a date to keep free on your calendars...

[Brandon]

5 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

also happy birthday to the late great Eddie Guerrero! 

I'm going to assume that the previous record holder would of been Mae Young and Moolah against pretty much anyone? 

[The Unknown Poster]

16 minutes ago, ediger said:

Sweet jesus!

Anyway, I'm hearing this rumour that October 19th is a date to keep free on your calendars...

You are correct!    Coincidentally, PCW returns to Doubles Bar that very night...nudge nudge wink wink

[bigg jay]

**looks at the calendar for the 19th** 

Edited October 9, 2018 by bigg jay

[The Unknown Poster]

This Saudi news is slowly beginning to rub off on WWE as they have a show there in a few weeks.  The big thing is, its not just that WWE does a show there, they are paid huge to spread Saudi government propaganda.  Within wrestling, its looked at very poorly.  WWE likely will just try to fly under the radar (the money is just too good to pass up) but there is a chance the story explodes and WWE is forced to cancel.