Wrestling

[ediger]

let the speculation officially begin

 

"Kenny Omega Is Leaving New Japan Pro-Wrestling"
https://www.mandatory.com/wrestlezone/news/1040123-report-kenny-omega-is-leaving-new-japan-pro-wrestling

Edited January 7, 2019 by ediger

[The Unknown Poster]

KUSHIDA says he’s leaving also. WWE wants him as well. 

[ediger]

the next year could be the most interesting we've seen in wrestling in a number of years.

[JCon]

4 hours ago, ediger said:

the next year could be the most interesting we've seen in wrestling in a number of years.

You can put all the talent in WWE but if they keep putting out a bland, rehashed product, it will still be unwatchable. 

KO can be the best in the world, with outstanding ability, but the WWE storylines/bookings will bury him. 

[The Unknown Poster]

The word is out that New Japan has decided to maintain its working relationship with ROH.   They had been scheduled to all sit down together this past weekend (All Elite included).

New Japan sort of had to do that since they have the co-branded MSG show Wrestlemania weekend (New Japan/ROH).  But All Elite thought they'd be able to keep working dates in Japan.

And this decision might be what cost New Japan Kenny.  Had he been able to maintain his lucrative New Japan deal and then work with Elite, it would make a lot of sense.  New Japan seems to always be fine losing guys but Jay White isnt a replacement for Kenny Omega.

I get the sense Kenny might want some time to rest and recuperate.  The sense out there is that Elite feels confident in landing him.  If their holding deal is lucrative enough, they just might.  It doesnt sound like Elite has a lot of shows planned for this year so those holding deals afford guys time to do the indies they want and to take time off.

[The Unknown Poster]

4 minutes ago, JCon said:

You can put all the talent in WWE but if they keep putting out a bland, rehashed product, it will still be unwatchable. 

KO can be the best in the world, with outstanding ability, but the WWE storylines/bookings will bury him. 

I agree.  Everything about WWE is so formulaic.  The way they shoot TV, the way the announcers talk, the commercial breaks, the slick everything, the matches, the booking...they need a major change in how they present TV from top to bottom.

[Brandon]

59 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

I agree.  Everything about WWE is so formulaic.  The way they shoot TV, the way the announcers talk, the commercial breaks, the slick everything, the matches, the booking...they need a major change in how they present TV from top to bottom.

I was listening to a podcast last night with Bruce Prichard talking about Gene Okerlund.    What they brought up was back in the day when the wrestlers were shooting promos  they would only tell them where they were fighting and who it was against and everything else was completely ad libbed.   Bruce said Mean Gene was the best because they literally let the guy do his own shtick and had absolutely nothing scripted.     Fast forward Gene comes back for the 25th anniversary of Raw and couldn't believe how many writers/producers they had and how the wrestlers had to all follow a script.       

I miss the days where the wrestlers own personalities would come through with the characters they played.   The forced stuff just seems so awkward and so bland..

[The Unknown Poster]

6 minutes ago, Brandon said:

I was listening to a podcast last night with Bruce Prichard talking about Gene Okerlund.    What they brought up was back in the day when the wrestlers were shooting promos  they would only tell them where they were fighting and who it was against and everything else was completely ad libbed.   Bruce said Mean Gene was the best because they literally let the guy do his own shtick and had absolutely nothing scripted.     Fast forward Gene comes back for the 25th anniversary of Raw and couldn't believe how many writers/producers they had and how the wrestlers had to all follow a script.       

I miss the days where the wrestlers own personalities would come through with the characters they played.   The forced stuff just seems so awkward and so bland..

You can blame Stephanie.  

There was actually a TV writer named Chris Kreski that no one talks about unless they're really into wrestling.  He was there when Vince Russo was head writer.  When Russo abruptly quit, Kreski was promoted to head writer.  Being a legit TV guy, he would create story boards charting the storylines and people would make fun of him.  He did it so he could keep track and make sure the stories were logical.

WWE's highest ratings came under Kreski.

When Vince decided Stephanie should be moved up as head of creative, Kreski left the company.  Steph them embarked on the "hire TV writers" trend.  When you have 50 writers on staff, they have to justify their existence and thus, every tiny detail is scripted.  

To a degree, Vince was a bit of a self loathing wrestling fan.  He always wanted to go legit.  Thus, they arent in the wrestling business.  They are like Disney.  So they think anyway. (Steph recently said WWE could be as big as Disney one day lol)

[The Unknown Poster]

As a wrestling fan its actually a lot of fun right now.  You have New Japan's biggest show of the year just ending and their usual time frame for contracts to expire (end of January), plus the Rumble and all the rumours (that usually fall flat) of guest stars for that and the increased fun and interest that is the Rumble to WrestleMania corridor.  Plus now with All Elite, the impact on ROH and the biggest free agent since...I cant even remember when.

Lots of fun!

[Mike]

Honestly, I find myself hoping Kenny signs with AEW. I really believe I'm in a weird place right now as a fan of wrestling and I want something to spark my interest again. I've been a fan since i was a pre-teen and I remember growing up watching WCW and WWF - it was can't miss stuff for a lot of my youth and while I know that I may never have the same genuine interest in it ever again (people grow, tastes change, etc), I still believe I could support something if it was an accessible product worth supporting.

WWE is god awful terrible garbage. I still find myself getting hyped up for certain things ... I go to a friend's house for a Royal Rumble party and a Wrestlemania party annually, I catch clips of segments if they sound can't miss (I don't honestly think this happened in 2018) and I always seem to keep up with the ongoing news related to WWE as far as signings, pushes, etc to see if there's anything that could ever pique my interest. I don't blame any of the performers for signing there or staying there - it's a business and WWE is a great way to make $ and lots of them are like me - grew up wanting to perform at Wrestlemania or whatever. I get it. I just can't get into the product. It's horrible. I remember being hyped for AJ, hyped for Balor, hyped for Joe, hyped for so many big names and the main roster formula manages to **** it all up. Damn near every time.

AEW as a product gives me some hope. If they land some kind of deal (TV, streaming, whatever) that can get their product in front of some real volume of viewers, then I think they have a shot to be the real 1B to WWE's 1A - not in the sense that they'll ever be as huge when you're talking global footprint, but in the sense that they could put on a competitive product that could be akin to the Monday Night Wars in some form. Depends on who they get for talent as well, though. I'd love to see them try and get exclusive deals but maybe that's not realistic for a lot of the talent. However, give me a product that is potentially able to put Omega, Jericho, Pentagon, Fenix, the Bucks, etc on my screen on a regular basis? I'm all in on that, especially because I know the minds behind the product are smart enough to not have them doing stories where their manager pisses themselves or have them wrestle the same boring match 573 weeks in a row.

It's too bad WWE has signed so much talent that could really make their mark in a new company. I'm still hyped for guys like Cole, Black, Dream, etc but I have no faith that they're not going to be just as mismanaged once they hit Raw or Smackdown as everybody else. Sad.

[The Unknown Poster]

Tony Khan being involved in AEW gives it hope.  If they can get a TV deal that pays, even decent initially.  Look at WWE the the billion deal they got for relatively low ratings.  If Elite can be half of that, they're looking at at even bigger TV deal next time (depending on the landscape).  

Its hard to imagine anyone ever becoming as big as WWE but if Elite ever got a billion TV deal and along with that, comparable merchandise, house shows, PPV, they'd be in the conversation as far as on the level.  And then you go public and everyone gets super rich.

Kenny is in such a unique position.  Go to WWE and take the big money.  And you still have exciting matches there that are fresh.  And new challenges.  There is still a "change the world" aspect to him going to WWE and trying to change it from the inside (and believe me, Hunter is "all in" for Kenny).  Or go with AEW and help them get the TV deal they need (Kenny definitely gives them advantages), sells merch, sells tickets (Kenny can be heavily credited with ROH's biggest year and New Japan's US growth (along with Jericho).

Its not a stretch to say that this is a critical point in wrestling (previous critical points being WWE signing Hogan in 84, Austin 3:16, Hogan to WCW, Hall & Nash to WCW, Montreal Screwjob, etc).  And Kenny's decision is the key factor in what happens.

He deserves it too.  Some other significant Kenny news will be forthcoming shortly as well.

[JCon]

59 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Its not a stretch to say that this is a critical point in wrestling (previous critical points being WWE signing Hogan in 84, Austin 3:16, Hogan to WCW, Hall & Nash to WCW, Montreal Screwjob, etc).  And Kenny's decision is the key factor in what happens.

He deserves it too.  Some other significant Kenny news will be forthcoming shortly as well.

Let's say, hypothetically, you were doing an HBO documentary about Kenny, would "the decision" be a part of it or would you have wrapped filming and sent it to post-production by now? 

[The Unknown Poster]

Just now, JCon said:

Let's say, hypothetically, you were doing an HBO documentary about Kenny, would "the decision" be a part of it or would you have wrapped filming and sent it to post-production by now? 

Hypothetically, if I was doing it, I'd have made sure the decision was apart of it.  But if a very large media company was doing it, their deadlines would be such that it would be long wrapped by now.  But if I knew people involved in such a venture I would certainly have suggested they be able to insert such a decision into the finished product.

[Mike]

I still kick myself for the time I didn’t harass KO for a picture together at the gym a couple Christmases ago 😂

[The Unknown Poster]

Sounds like New Japan thought they could keep Kenny absent a working relationship with All Elite and were taken aback when Kenny publicly announced he was leaving.  Sounds like they're back-tracking a bit and taking another look at a deal with AEW.  They want to keep Kenny that much.

A WWE source told Meltzer they want Kenny very badly but it doesnt look like it's going to happen.  

Some of the AEW holding deals are for five years.  

[Brandon]

34 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

A WWE source told Meltzer they want Kenny very badly but it doesnt look like it's going to happen.  

Everybody has a price..  they would just need to ante up more money.

[The Unknown Poster]

59 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Everybody has a price..  they would just need to ante up more money.

They could probably get a deal done pretty easily if they offered more freedom, not more money.  They used to have guys that were able to do Japan tours but that was before the era of guaranteed contracts (not entirely, but for most people).

[The Unknown Poster]

 

Reminder, Shad Khan owns the Jacksonville Jags and is worth $6.4 billion, a figure that puts Vince to shame.

His son, Tony, who will head AEW is 36 years old.

They're certainly saying all the right things.  I had heard that they were negotiating with a couple of guys who received offers from Impact and in response, AEW "tripled" their offer.  If true, they're very serious.

Getting Omega will certainly be the biggest feather in their cap.

Quote

SHAD KHAN CONFIRMED AS LEAD INVESTOR IN ALL ELITE WRESTLING

 

In a release Tuesday morning with some quotes ahead of their kickoff rally in Jacksonville, FL, Jacksonville Jaguars (NFL) owner Shad Khan confirmed he is the lead investor in All Elite Wrestling, the fledgling promotion involving the Young Bucks, Cody, and more.

From the release:

"I am the lead investor, a supporter and a backer of All Elite Wrestling, and I anticipate great things today and into the future for AEW and everyone who has worked passionately on this week’s launch. I know AEW will be welcomed by wrestling fans here in the U.S. and throughout the world who are ready for something new and authentic. AEW will work hard to deliver on that promise."

Khan also clarified his son Tony's involvement and that AEW will run independently from his other businesses:

"As important, I am the father – the proud father – of Tony Khan, who will serve in a leadership role at AEW during the 2019 launch and in the years ahead. Tony will assemble a great team to take AEW over the top, for the benefit of everyone who loves the wrestling industry, while continuing to serve in his current capacities with the Jaguars and Fulham.

AEW will operate as an organization completely independently from my other interests. It will not deter attention or divert resources from any of my businesses, teams, projects or investments. At the same time, AEW will enjoy the same full commitment I given to everything and everyone in my life – my family and friends, my business and, in recent years, to sports, hospitality and now entertainment."

Tony then gave a statement about AEW:

"Wrestling fans are a community unlike most others. I’ve been a part of this community since I was 7 years old, and I can tell you that wresting fans see the world every day through a special lens. We see wrestling in Hollywood films and tv shows, we see elements of wrestling in the presentation of sports and in the marketing of grandiose star athletes, and we certainly see wrestling in politics.

The wrestling community is a constant; its members are diverse, we are physically located on all corners of the planet, yet we are constantly connected. Recently, a new family has formed, bonded by love and respect for wresting but armed with a vision and resources that have never before been available to the wrestling community.  Our objective is to connect our community closer than ever before through All Elite Wrestling, or AEW.

AEW does not mean any less of a continued commitment to existing obligations and duties that I have, or my family has, to our business and sports interests. That will never be the case. What’s important is that every individual decision we make as family, whether it’s ownership or investment in a team or property, is 100 percent beneficial to those specific interests. I will always welcome that accountability and responsibility, as nothing is more important than serving our supporters and friends.

AEW will launch with a roster of the top wrestlers in the world. While they’ll clash in what will be some of the most intense and fast-paced contests ever sanctioned in the squared circle, they’ll also share a common goal: to make this the true golden age, to make this the greatest time ever to be a wrestling fan. Likewise, as a business, by treating our wrestlers with respect and warmth, we also seek to make this the golden age for the performers themselves.

I urge everyone who believes in what we’re doing, or wants to believe in dreams coming true, to support AEW by spreading the word and passing the wrestling bug onto someone else.  My message: Get in on the ground floor with AEW today and help lead our movement to grow the wrestling community and ensure that the voices of the wrestling fans, their creative minds and their remarkable ideas, will always be heard."

 

[JCon]

This seems in line with what Turner did - throw a lot of money at talent to get some of the best names in the industry. It worked for a while and lead to the wrestling revolution. Khan doesn't own the means to distribute it, though. 

[The Unknown Poster]

2 minutes ago, JCon said:

This seems in line with what Turner did - throw a lot of money at talent to get some of the best names in the industry. It worked for a while and lead to the wrestling revolution. Khan doesn't own the means to distribute it, though. 

Guaranteed contracts existed before Turner signed Hall & Nash but his huge guaranteed deals to both of them made WWE walk away.  One year later, WWE wouldn't have walked away (especially if they could predict how the nWo would hurt their business).  Its not that Turner gave MORE money to guys, its that in WWE you were guaranteed less but could make more.  In WCW the guarantee pay caused guys to miss work and not care.

WCW had a bad habit of giving big deals to guys they never used either.  When Benoit, Eddie etc jumped to WWE it was for really good deals, but less than WCW offered.  They jumped for the opportunity to make more because there was an opportunity to be a bigger star.  Same with Jericho.

We havent had any rumours yet on what AEW is paying.  They wanted Bandido and he signed with ROH and ROH does not "over pay" so that would tell us AEW wasn't offering unreasonable contracts.  Bucks and Cody turned down $1 million from WWE but their involved in management of AEW.

I suspect, if the rumor of WWE's offer to Kenny is true, his deal with AEW would be for less money but probably has the chance to make up the difference.

I have had some local guys tell me Kenny is crazy if he doesnt take the bigger money deal.  But average people every day make decisions where they accept less pay for a more rewarding job.  When you're talking millions, if WWE offers $3.5 but not going to WWE results in him making $2 million but having more control, more time off, more fun, more rewarding experience and part of something historic...is he really sacrificing a lot?  How much do you need to be happy?  Thats the question.

The Khans are business people.  I dont think they're being worked by Cody.  They will have a budget.  They will know what they want in a TV deal.  What they need for PPV buy rates etc.  

If WWE gets $1 billion for TV, can AEW get $100 million deal?  And if so, if they draw 1 million - 1.5 million viewers, what does the next deal look like?  

Its really exciting to think about a legit alternative to WWE.  And I guarantee if AEW is a legitimate alternative to WWE, it will make WWE a lot better than it currently is.  And the boys will benefit greatly.  So will the fans.  

In fact, if you like wrestling you HOPE Kenny signs with AEW.

[JCon]

2 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Guaranteed contracts existed before Turner signed Hall & Nash but his huge guaranteed deals to both of them made WWE walk away.  One year later, WWE wouldn't have walked away (especially if they could predict how the nWo would hurt their business).  Its not that Turner gave MORE money to guys, its that in WWE you were guaranteed less but could make more.  In WCW the guarantee pay caused guys to miss work and not care.

WCW had a bad habit of giving big deals to guys they never used either.  When Benoit, Eddie etc jumped to WWE it was for really good deals, but less than WCW offered.  They jumped for the opportunity to make more because there was an opportunity to be a bigger star.  Same with Jericho.

...

In fact, if you like wrestling you HOPE Kenny signs with AEW.

It's funny but the nWo in WCW actually made McMahon a billionaire. No way wrestling climbs as high as it did without the Attitude Era. It forced Vince to push things out of his comfort zone. 

 

WCW paid too much, to too many guys and you always felt as though the roster was too big. I mean, they couldn't even get all the nWo into the ring. Trying to give everyone time on the mic was challenging and it seemed like they were rarely even wrestling. 

 

I hope Kenny signs with AEW. I fear he would be ruined in the WWE.

[The Unknown Poster]

Just now, JCon said:

It's funny but the nWo in WCW actually made McMahon a billionaire. No way wrestling climbs as high as it did without the Attitude Era. It forced Vince to push things out of his comfort zone. 

 

WCW paid too much, to too many guys and you always felt as though the roster was too big. I mean, they couldn't even get all the nWo into the ring. Trying to give everyone time on the mic was challenging and it seemed like they were rarely even wrestling. 

 

I hope Kenny signs with AEW. I fear he would be ruined in the WWE.

Also when WCW added Thunder, the big stars wanted more money to work.  So a guy making millions says he's only contracted to work 4 TV's and a PPV per month so wants more money to work Thunder.   Eventually Thunder sucks because no "stars" are willing to work it.

WCW used to fly their entire roster to TV as well because they often had no idea what the show line up would be until show day.  Massive expenses.  Lanny Poffo had a huge deal and never worked one single time for WCW.

WCW could have rebounded.  They were still getting a 2.0-3.0 rating on Nitro (RAW gets less than that now).  They were just badly mismanaged and a Turner executive killed the TV (some say maliciously to allow a sale to WWE because of a relationship with someone there).  

It makes you realize how badly Dixie Carter screwed up TNA.  They had that sweet Spike TV deal and she just didnt get it.  She could have had Paul Heyman but instead chose Hogan/Bischoff and Russo.

[bigg jay]

The only reason I would like to see Kenny in the WWE is to see the matches with guys like Styles, Seth and Bryan.  I know they've all worked together in some form before but to see them headlining Wrestlemania would be something else.

 

[Brandon]

It didn't help when near the end WCW was paying a million dollars to draw a low rating with Kiss playing live on the show  or when they started massively over paying C level talent.  

I love reading stories about how a bunch of guys were making 6 figures and were "forgotten" about and would hide at the tapings just so that they didn't notice them still being around. 

At the start they made wise investments with Hogan and Macho mainly because they brought in other advertisers which helped justify their high costs.  It also helped that WWE literally gave those guys away.  WCW had the upper hand also by not having the crazy road schedule of the WWF at the time.

With Omega if they offer something close to WWE it would make sense for him to go with them.   But if the offer is something along the lines of 3.5 million guarantee compared to only 1 million....  then in my opinion he would be unwise to take the lower offer.    At some point you have to cash out because at any point his career can be over with one bad accident. 

 

[ediger]

I'm sure there's a price that Kenny can't refuse from WWE but without being able to see the money both WWE & AEW have on the table it's pretty tough to judge what his best option is right now.