Wrestling

[Atomic]

I'm not a local wrestling fan at all but I just happened to attend a CWE show at one point.    I enjoyed it.  The wrestlers were pretty mean to me.  I love that.  It seems to me that PCW has a lot less visibility because the only reason I know of you guys is through this forum.  CWE ends up in my Twitter feed and I see them on Shaw TV, etc.

@The Unknown Poster

Edited January 8, 2018 by Atomic

[The Unknown Poster]

Just now, Atomic said:

I'm not a local wrestling fan at all but I just happened to attend a CWE show at one point.    I enjoyed it.  The wrestlers were pretty mean to me.  I love that.  It seems to me that PCW has a lot less visibility because the only reason I know of you guys is through this forum.  CWE ends up in my Twitter feed and I see them on Shaw TV, etc.

You see CWE on SHAW?  I thought they aired on a rural MTS channel.  PCW has been on SHAW.  Maybe you saw us lol

I dont think we have less visibility.  Its probably just the case that people you follow run in the same circles.  Since they run more out of town shows, they are pushing the same info in each town so it makes sense for them to be more active in that.  On the other hand, for our last event, we made one FB post about Kenny and were sold out right away. 

They run more shows.  Hence more activity I suppose.  Their promoter also lives and breaths wrestling 24/7 online whereas I definitely dont.  My social media is for me, not for PCW.  Only very close to shows do I re-tweet or like or whatever.  The only number that matters is paid asses in seats ;-)

[Atomic]

4 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

You see CWE on SHAW?  I thought they aired on a rural MTS channel.  PCW has been on SHAW.  Maybe you saw us lol

I dont think we have less visibility.  Its probably just the case that people you follow run in the same circles.  Since they run more out of town shows, they are pushing the same info in each town so it makes sense for them to be more active in that.  On the other hand, for our last event, we made one FB post about Kenny and were sold out right away. 

They run more shows.  Hence more activity I suppose.  Their promoter also lives and breaths wrestling 24/7 online whereas I definitely dont.  My social media is for me, not for PCW.  Only very close to shows do I re-tweet or like or whatever.  The only number that matters is paid asses in seats ;-)

Can you post your social media accounts here?  Or just PM me.  I'd like to check it out.  You may be right, re: running in certain circles.

And yeah CWE is on that main Shaw channel... 11?  CWE Adrenaline I think it's called.

[The Unknown Poster]

2 minutes ago, Atomic said:

Can you post your social media accounts here?  Or just PM me.  I'd like to check it out.  You may be right, re: running in certain circles.

And yeah CWE is on that main Shaw channel... 11?  CWE Adrenaline I think it's called.

Hmmm, thats interesting.  Ch 9?   The guy that "controlled" that timeslot used to put us on there.  But I actually asked him to stop because his production was atrocious to the point I didnt want our product shown that poorly.  As I recall Adrenaline was taped for Neepawa TV on MTS so I assume they just give the same tape to SHAW.  Actually as I write that I recall hearing about SHAW HQ being upset with something that aired.

I didnt want to take over the timeslot because of the work involved in producing the TV to a reasonable quality and it doesnt sell a single ticket anyway.   But its a great feeling to have TV.

However, I have been wanting to air our "archives" on a 30 minute online show.  We have tapes going back to 2002, sometimes sporadic (didnt tape every show), and often poorly taped (SD, One Cam).  But there is a charm to the smokey, dark, fan cam visuals.  We were very angle heavy, especially back in the day.  So if you take a month of 2-3 hour live shows and edit them, add graphics and new commentary, you can create an interesting 30 minute weekly show that lasts a long time. 

Especially using a very young Kenny Omega as the hook. 

We are

@pcwaction (twitter mirror of our Facebook)

@pcwlegacy (twitter I generally control)

PCWaction (on facebook)

We have a show this weekend which reminds me, I better start hitting social media! lol  If you ever want to check out a show, shoot me a message and Ill be happy to provide comps for you and guests to check it out.

[Brandon]

Does Mentallo still wrestle locally?  Next to Kenny Omega I always found him to be the next best local wrestler back in the day?

[bigg jay]

Mentallo is still going.  Not sure how often but he's working the current CWE tour.

[ediger]

45 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Does Mentallo still wrestle locally?  Next to Kenny Omega I always found him to be the next best local wrestler back in the day?

He'll pop up at PCW shows from time to time. I haven't been to a CWE show in forever so I can't really speak to the quality of their roster, but TUP's put together a decent roster in PCW. Antonio Scorpio Jr, Jackie Lee, Scott Justice, Chad Tatum, Blaze N **** and Flex Appeal amongst others are all worth the price of admission.

[The Unknown Poster]

21 minutes ago, ediger said:

He'll pop up at PCW shows from time to time. I haven't been to a CWE show in forever so I can't really speak to the quality of their roster, but TUP's put together a decent roster in PCW. Antonio Scorpio Jr, Jackie Lee, Scott Justice, Chad Tatum, Blaze N **** and Flex Appeal amongst others are all worth the price of admission.

I appreciate the kind words.  A bunch of like minded guys who work hard. I’m lucky to have them. Several of our guys were trained by Lance Storm (Jackie, a justice, Alix Vanna, Shao ming). 

[The Unknown Poster]

48 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

Mentallo is still going.  Not sure how often but he's working the current CWE tour.

Yes he usually does a couple of the out of town shows when CWE has a tour and their bigger local show.  And often works for ringside wrestling in SK. 

Mentallo was one of Kenny Omega’s early trainers and they were often considered 1 & 2 talents here for awhile. I’d put Rawskillz and Mike Angels in that discussion too though most of you won’t know them. Really good talent. 

Winnipeg has been a solid producer of talent for a long time especially lacking another major market close by. 

[bigg jay]

I remember watching Mentallo in the late 90's with the CWF (he went by Hysteria back then) and thought he was head and shoulders above everyone else.  I know he worked in Japan & Mexico a bit but I was surprised he never managed to stick in either place. 

[The Unknown Poster]

9 hours ago, bigg jay said:

I remember watching Mentallo in the late 90's with the CWF (he went by Hysteria back then) and thought he was head and shoulders above everyone else.  I know he worked in Japan & Mexico a bit but I was surprised he never managed to stick in either place. 

Robby Royce is another guy from Winnipeg who was ahead of his time as a worker compared to everyone else.  Almost as if they came along a bit too early.  Mentallo helped a young Omega though so thats a good legacy to have.  As well as Rawskillz who was tremendous.  Omega gave an interview last year and was asked if there was anyone from Winnipeg who could have made it and he said Rawskillz.  But he finished school,  got a job, settled down and quietly retired.

Royce was the NWA North American champion and would have worked with Steve Corino for the NWA World Championship but he left the CWF (NWA affiliate).  We brought Corino in a few years later when he was AWA World Champion to work with Royce (and Rawskillz).  Royce is actually the first local guy I read about in the "dirt sheets" before I was a fan of local wrestling.

[JCon]

45 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Robby Royce is another guy from Winnipeg who was ahead of his time as a worker compared to everyone else.  Almost as if they came along a bit too early.  Mentallo helped a young Omega though so thats a good legacy to have.  As well as Rawskillz who was tremendous.  Omega gave an interview last year and was asked if there was anyone from Winnipeg who could have made it and he said Rawskillz.  But he finished school,  got a job, settled down and quietly retired.

Royce was the NWA North American champion and would have worked with Steve Corino for the NWA World Championship but he left the CWF (NWA affiliate).  We brought Corino in a few years later when he was AWA World Champion to work with Royce (and Rawskillz).  Royce is actually the first local guy I read about in the "dirt sheets" before I was a fan of local wrestling.

As I've said before on here,  Showtime was one of my local favs. I saw him all over town. Rendez-vous, Convention Centre (on a tapped show with Sandman), in St. Vital, etc. Buddies and I used to give him a hard time with his mullet. We chanted Mul-Let. It was great and he played it so well.

I knew a few people like Alex Rain (Stacy) from way back but no one that made it really big. The late 90's, early 00s was a great time for local wrestling because the promoters were getting great outsiders and promoting the locals. It was fun and accessible. And, I was young, so could go to whatever shows I wanted.  I'm sure the promotions are still doing the same now but I just don't follow it any longer.

[The Unknown Poster]

4 minutes ago, JCon said:

As I've said before on here,  Showtime was one of my local favs. I saw him all over town. Rendez-vous, Convention Centre (on a tapped show with Sandman), in St. Vital, etc. Buddies and I used to give him a hard time with his mullet. We chanted Mul-Let. It was great and he played it so well.

I knew a few people like Alex Rain (Stacy) from way back but no one that made it really big. The late 90's, early 00s was a great time for local wrestling because the promoters were getting great outsiders and promoting the locals. It was fun and accessible. And, I was young, so could go to whatever shows I wanted.  I'm sure the promotions are still doing the same now but I just don't follow it any longer.

You missed the best time for local wrestling! lol

The late 80's and into 90's was good because of the old territory days.  So you had a lot of veteran talent that used to work for WWE, NWA, AWA.  When those companies did shows (house shows or TV), they always had "locals" they used for jobber matches.  AWA especially was a great conduit because you had the Browns (Bulldog Bob and Kerry) who worked that circuit down into Kansas.  Bobby Jay.   Brian Jewel.  A bunch of Alberta.  Lots of guys who would be lower level WWE guys or just miss the cut.  But still worked all over.

Then they aged out.  2000/2001 was great locally.

Indulge me as I go over some history...lol  This will be long. 

CWF was the NWA affiliate promoted by Ernie Todd.  Robby Royce was the top guy.  Paul Diamond moved to Winnipeg (I cant remember why) and became a regular with the CWF.  So you had these great Royce/Diamond matches.  Keep in mind Diamond was the top guy for Shawn Michael's promotion in Texas.  He was really good.

The "kids" came along.  Rawskillz, Mike Angels, Chad Tatum.  Darren Dalton.  Plus with Royce, EZ Ryder etc, you had this really great mix of talent in the CWF.  They'd pack Le Rendezvous.

This was before I broke in.  I remember going to the parking lot of Pony Corral on Pembina Hwy to watch WFWA with Don Callis on top and Joe Aiello announcing.  But I lost interest in wrestling and missed the great 99/2000 era locally.

As the NWA affiliate, CWF got dates on the champions.  So Steve Corino came along.  He was really, really good (and from Winnipeg).  Former ECW World Champion.  He worked with Royce and they became good friends.  Sabu no-showed though.  And suddenly there was another promotion promising Mr Perfect and not delivering.  And the "names" cooled off.

In an incident locals call The Garage Sale Massacre, Royce and several guys including most of the young talent went to Ernie Todd's home and quit en mass.

Ernie was a wrestling fan who owned a trucking company when he bought the CWF and promised it would be a "business".  We all have pros and cons.  Ernie's cons were that he was an prick and felt that, as owner, he should be pushed on his shows. 

A previous promotion called Power Pro Wrestling was a splinter group that broke off from CWF because the boys were sick of Ernie.  It lasted 1 or 2 shows before folding and everyone went back to CWF and did an Invasion angle.  The story goes that most of the guys that broke away were veterans except for Mentallo who was a young guy.  So when they all came back, Mentallo was the one jobbed out as punishment.  Ernie used to make guys sign contracts and DID take guys to court if they quit.

A later splinter group was Top Rope Championship Wrestling.  Promoted by Bobby Jay.  He had worked some WWE TV matches in the jobber role.  He had a few bucks and was well liked.  So TRCW successfully broke away from CWF.  They mostly ran community centres.  CC's were the life blood of local wrestling for a time.  But insurance costs rose and the city increased their insurance requirements for wrestling (a really nasty thing actually).

Around this time, it was rare for local promotions to bring in big names.  CWF has Corino come in (they got him cheap due to the NWA affiliation) and the Sabu no show.  TRCW brought in Jim Neidhart.  I believe it was for an out of town guarantee (a guarantee is when a venue or town pays you X amount of dollars and "buys" the show so you know you're not losing any money).  TRCW's booker was a young guy named Mike who convinced Bobby Jay to keep Neidhart an extra few days and use him in Winnipeg.

Bobby claims they lost money on it.  But it was pretty exciting for the local fans.  TRCW had an influx of young guys from River City Wrestling which was sort of a lower level local promotion.  Don Callis trained guys locally and a few of them went on to TRCW (Will Damon, Donnie Dicaprio, Chris Stevens, Chad Ripley).

In 98 I began working at the Palladium.  In 2001 we were approached by both the CWF and TRCW to put on live shows.  The manager went with TRCW and it changed the local business.  What made Le Rendezvous such a cool venue for the CWF (and in turn made the CWF the cool promotion) was it was a great venue to watch and had a liquor license so it appealed to an older crowd.  And by older I mean like 20-something as opposed to the usual kids and seniors that made up a lot of the Community Center crowd.

So when TRCW debuted for a weekly show at The Palladium, expectations were high but it sucked.  The bar was really busy on the weekends and we asked our regulars who never waited in line or paid cover, to do us the favour of coming to TRCW on Thursday night.  They did.  They loved it and it snowballed from there.  So now you had a University-aged crowd making TRCW into the cool thing to do on Thursday night. 

The hot angle in 2001 at the Palladium was the group called "MVP".  Will Damon & Donnie Dicaprio, trained by Don Callis and Shane Madison who had trained in Ontario.  All three guys were young, good looking, dressed the part, had great gear, tans and physiques...and that was getting rare in local wrestling.  They were cool.  The crowd nearly rioted when Madison turned heel on his partner TJ Bratt and joined Damon and Dicaprio.

When Royce and his buddies quit CWF in the Garage Sale Massacre, they did so to jump to TRCW and suddenly CWF was dying and TRCW was super hot and super cool.

But egos got in the way.  Bobby Jay was the owner and promoter of TRCW but his booker (the script writer) was a young guy named Mike.  Mike got the gig because his cousin Vance Nevada had been the booker and went on a tour and had Mike fill in (because you cant trust anyone to not try and take your job).  Well, Mike took the job by becoming tight with the other young guys and pushing them while de-pushing the aging veterans.  This caused conflict between Mike and Bobby.

Long story short, even when business was awesome, you cant cross the boss.  Bobby fired Mike.  Mike admits he was also very immature and unprofessional at the time.

With the change in booker, the shows became less cool and fan interest began to wane.  Mike and I became close friends.  And decided to start our own promotion, essentially splintering from TRCW as it had done from CWF.   I used my connections to scoop the Palladium as a venue and Mike scooped most of the roster.

I remember a lot of people wanting TRCW to bring in a big name.  The HonkyTonk Man was always suggested.  And Bobby publicly said he could never justify it financially. 

Meanwhile, Joe Aiello had the wrestling radio show on 92 CITI FM with Don Callis.  They did a show where they brought in, I believe, Mad Dog Vachon and Kurgan.  So Kurgan was what passed for a big name in Winnipeg.

We launched in early 2002 and brought in Honky Tonk Man, Brutus Beefcake and Eddie Guerrero.  CWF brought in Dan Severn (who Ernie Todd worked himself and actually made Severan "tap out").  Bobby was game for a fight and responded by bringing in Tatanka, Davey Boy Smith and Sunny...but Sunny no showed twice.  Bobby also tried to get the Road Warriors, so we out bid him for them and Buff Bagwell.  We had Bret Hart booked too but it was when he had his stroke and had to pull out.

Our financial backer had basically pulled out in mid 2002 when he got bored.  But we kept it a secret and everyone thought we had a millionaire backer.  Bobby threw in the towel and closed TRCW and came to us (PCW).  The remnants of TRCW were picked by Royce (he and my partner Mike disliked each other so Royce had not been asked to come to PCW initially).  Royce called his group ICW and they ran Doubles Bar.  Eventually Royce closed ICW and did come to PCW.

A side note in the "never trust anyone", Bobby was working for us but had talked to Coyotes about doing shows.  He figured we'd hear about it so came to us and said it was a one off show and would be a PCW show.  But in reality he was negotiating a weekly guarantee and went to our roster and began asking guys to prepare to jump ship.  One of the guys tipped us off and Bobby's project never happened (he said not enough guys were willing to jump).

Le Rendezvous closed and CWF was basically finished...they kept promoting but not very well and without a good roster.  His last gasp was leaving the NWA for a project called Ring Warriors which was a group of former NWA affiliates that wanted to create a "new" NWA.  Dusty Rhodes was involved.  And actually, Ernie had Dusty call our financial backer and try to convince him to financially back Ring Warriors.  It never got off the ground.

In mid 2003, we promoted a show that was supposed to feature D-Lo Brown.  The venue (The Avenue) backed out at the last second and it never happened.  That contributed to me and my partner having a falling out.  Mike quit in August 2003.

At the same time, CWF had rebounded by piggy backing on Bobby's efforts and convinced Coyotes to pay him a $750 weekly guarantee (a lot of money back then).  Coyotes liked the idea of beating The Palladium at wrestling.  They were also unhappy because we used to film amusing vignettes and in one, we filmed Mike "walking" from the office on North Pembina to The Palladium to the song "500 Miles" and in one scene, he pissed on the side of Coyotes.  This got back to them and they werent amused.

But CWF's crew was mainly older veterans who didnt really fit the "young, cool, nightclub" vibe, they never drew well and my now-ex partner was down there every day with his friends talking in the ear of management.  CWF got thrown out.  Mike ran a show called "AWE" with Dan Severn and Buff Bagwell.

The politics and craziness were off the charts around this time.  My former financial backer even threatened to kill me (send me a picture of him pointing a gun and holding a sticky note that said 'dont mess with Jon').  There was even talk of mafia hits.  It was stupid.

But...the BEST time for wrestling was around the corner.  In December 2004, we brought in Jim Neidhart and packed the Lid (Palladium).  But it wasnt "our style" but we knew we could make money with names.  So we proceeded to, from 05-07, bring in Amazing Red, Petey Williams, Chris Sabin, Samoa Joe (3 times), Aj Styles, Johnny Devine, Steve Corino, Chris Daniels, Ultimo Dragon.  Mike started WFX and had a plethora of big names like the Steiners, Rikishi, Billy Gun, Severn, Bagwell, Jerry Lawler, Ultimo Dragon.  So, a good time to be a local fan.

The Lid closed and we moved on to Dylans and brought back Corino, Davey Richards, Keven Owens, Sammy Zayn, Honky Tonk Man.  And ofcourse, for most of this time we had Kenny Omega as a regular.  CWE was sort of a splinter group from us, brought in Daniel Bryan, Rollins and several Ring of Honor guys.

Oh and Ernie Todd sold the CWF to an Ontario group and they still run shows today, just not in Manitoba.  Mike had several projects too big to sustain themselves and quit for a long time.  He attempted a comeback in November but cancelled due to low ticket sales (wrong mix of "names").  Bobby Jay still works, mainly for CWE.  And Robby Royce recently returned to PCW (you can see him this Saturday at Doubles).

There's local wrestling in a nutshell.

@JCon you mentioned Alex Rain.  A really good wrestler.  One thing that I noticed, every "generation" builds on the previous.  So like Royce was ahead of his time.  But then Rain was great and Mentallo was great.  Then you had Madison and Damon.  Then Stevens and Omega, Scorpio and Rawskillz. Danny Duggan and AJ Sanchez were in that generation and really good too.   And now guys like Jackie Lee, the next generation.  It keeps turning over.  Which is probably the only reason I still do it.

Its like community theatre for actors that want to make it i Hollywood.  You do it because every so often, someone comes along that becomes an Oscar winner.

Anyway....whew.  That was a walk down memory lane.

[Atomic]

Wow that's some big names that came through.

Kurgan... there's a name I thought I had forgotten!

[The Unknown Poster]

Joe Aiello and Don Callis had another show in 2002 where they brought in Terry Taylor and Sabu.  Show was at Coyotes.

[JCon]

That was such an awesome recap. Thank-you!

I go way back to when Alex Rain was a bouncer at The Crypt. That was fun. Anyhow...

 

I saw a show with the Honky Tonk man at the German Club. Can't remember the timeline but I'm guessing after I came back to the province. Late 00s?

We tried to get out to everything we could.

 

[The Unknown Poster]

2 minutes ago, JCon said:

That was such an awesome recap. Thank-you!

I go way back to when Alex Rain was a bouncer at The Crypt. That was fun. Anyhow...

 

I saw a show with the Honky Tonk man at the German Club. Can't remember the timeline but I'm guessing after I came back to the province. Late 00s?

We tried to get out to everything we could.

 

Hmmm Im struggling to think of who that might have been that brought him in.  HTM was well booked in Winnipeg.  I think we brought him in...oh 3 times here and a few of times out of town.  Others brought him in as well.  Very popular.  Easy to work with. 

[JCon]

13 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Hmmm Im struggling to think of who that might have been that brought him in.  HTM was well booked in Winnipeg.  I think we brought him in...oh 3 times here and a few of times out of town.  Others brought him in as well.  Very popular.  Easy to work with. 

I think I might have my venue confused. I didn't drive but it seems that it was in the West End (not the North End).

[ediger]

2 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

You missed the best time for local wrestling! lol

The late 80's and into 90's was good because of the old territory days.  So you had a lot of veteran talent that used to work for WWE, NWA, AWA.  When those companies did shows (house shows or TV), they always had "locals" they used for jobber matches.  AWA especially was a great conduit because you had the Browns (Bulldog Bob and Kerry) who worked that circuit down into Kansas.  Bobby Jay.   Brian Jewel.  A bunch of Alberta.  Lots of guys who would be lower level WWE guys or just miss the cut.  But still worked all over.

Then they aged out.  2000/2001 was great locally.

Indulge me as I go over some history...lol  This will be long. 

CWF was the NWA affiliate promoted by Ernie Todd.  Robby Royce was the top guy.  Paul Diamond moved to Winnipeg (I cant remember why) and became a regular with the CWF.  So you had these great Royce/Diamond matches.  Keep in mind Diamond was the top guy for Shawn Michael's promotion in Texas.  He was really good.

The "kids" came along.  Rawskillz, Mike Angels, Chad Tatum.  Darren Dalton.  Plus with Royce, EZ Ryder etc, you had this really great mix of talent in the CWF.  They'd pack Le Rendezvous.

This was before I broke in.  I remember going to the parking lot of Pony Corral on Pembina Hwy to watch WFWA with Don Callis on top and Joe Aiello announcing.  But I lost interest in wrestling and missed the great 99/2000 era locally.

As the NWA affiliate, CWF got dates on the champions.  So Steve Corino came along.  He was really, really good (and from Winnipeg).  Former ECW World Champion.  He worked with Royce and they became good friends.  Sabu no-showed though.  And suddenly there was another promotion promising Mr Perfect and not delivering.  And the "names" cooled off.

In an incident locals call The Garage Sale Massacre, Royce and several guys including most of the young talent went to Ernie Todd's home and quit en mass.

Ernie was a wrestling fan who owned a trucking company when he bought the CWF and promised it would be a "business".  We all have pros and cons.  Ernie's cons were that he was an prick and felt that, as owner, he should be pushed on his shows. 

A previous promotion called Power Pro Wrestling was a splinter group that broke off from CWF because the boys were sick of Ernie.  It lasted 1 or 2 shows before folding and everyone went back to CWF and did an Invasion angle.  The story goes that most of the guys that broke away were veterans except for Mentallo who was a young guy.  So when they all came back, Mentallo was the one jobbed out as punishment.  Ernie used to make guys sign contracts and DID take guys to court if they quit.

A later splinter group was Top Rope Championship Wrestling.  Promoted by Bobby Jay.  He had worked some WWE TV matches in the jobber role.  He had a few bucks and was well liked.  So TRCW successfully broke away from CWF.  They mostly ran community centres.  CC's were the life blood of local wrestling for a time.  But insurance costs rose and the city increased their insurance requirements for wrestling (a really nasty thing actually).

Around this time, it was rare for local promotions to bring in big names.  CWF has Corino come in (they got him cheap due to the NWA affiliation) and the Sabu no show.  TRCW brought in Jim Neidhart.  I believe it was for an out of town guarantee (a guarantee is when a venue or town pays you X amount of dollars and "buys" the show so you know you're not losing any money).  TRCW's booker was a young guy named Mike who convinced Bobby Jay to keep Neidhart an extra few days and use him in Winnipeg.

Bobby claims they lost money on it.  But it was pretty exciting for the local fans.  TRCW had an influx of young guys from River City Wrestling which was sort of a lower level local promotion.  Don Callis trained guys locally and a few of them went on to TRCW (Will Damon, Donnie Dicaprio, Chris Stevens, Chad Ripley).

In 98 I began working at the Palladium.  In 2001 we were approached by both the CWF and TRCW to put on live shows.  The manager went with TRCW and it changed the local business.  What made Le Rendezvous such a cool venue for the CWF (and in turn made the CWF the cool promotion) was it was a great venue to watch and had a liquor license so it appealed to an older crowd.  And by older I mean like 20-something as opposed to the usual kids and seniors that made up a lot of the Community Center crowd.

So when TRCW debuted for a weekly show at The Palladium, expectations were high but it sucked.  The bar was really busy on the weekends and we asked our regulars who never waited in line or paid cover, to do us the favour of coming to TRCW on Thursday night.  They did.  They loved it and it snowballed from there.  So now you had a University-aged crowd making TRCW into the cool thing to do on Thursday night. 

The hot angle in 2001 at the Palladium was the group called "MVP".  Will Damon & Donnie Dicaprio, trained by Don Callis and Shane Madison who had trained in Ontario.  All three guys were young, good looking, dressed the part, had great gear, tans and physiques...and that was getting rare in local wrestling.  They were cool.  The crowd nearly rioted when Madison turned heel on his partner TJ Bratt and joined Damon and Dicaprio.

When Royce and his buddies quit CWF in the Garage Sale Massacre, they did so to jump to TRCW and suddenly CWF was dying and TRCW was super hot and super cool.

But egos got in the way.  Bobby Jay was the owner and promoter of TRCW but his booker (the script writer) was a young guy named Mike.  Mike got the gig because his cousin Vance Nevada had been the booker and went on a tour and had Mike fill in (because you cant trust anyone to not try and take your job).  Well, Mike took the job by becoming tight with the other young guys and pushing them while de-pushing the aging veterans.  This caused conflict between Mike and Bobby.

Long story short, even when business was awesome, you cant cross the boss.  Bobby fired Mike.  Mike admits he was also very immature and unprofessional at the time.

With the change in booker, the shows became less cool and fan interest began to wane.  Mike and I became close friends.  And decided to start our own promotion, essentially splintering from TRCW as it had done from CWF.   I used my connections to scoop the Palladium as a venue and Mike scooped most of the roster.

I remember a lot of people wanting TRCW to bring in a big name.  The HonkyTonk Man was always suggested.  And Bobby publicly said he could never justify it financially. 

Meanwhile, Joe Aiello had the wrestling radio show on 92 CITI FM with Don Callis.  They did a show where they brought in, I believe, Mad Dog Vachon and Kurgan.  So Kurgan was what passed for a big name in Winnipeg.

We launched in early 2002 and brought in Honky Tonk Man, Brutus Beefcake and Eddie Guerrero.  CWF brought in Dan Severn (who Ernie Todd worked himself and actually made Severan "tap out").  Bobby was game for a fight and responded by bringing in Tatanka, Davey Boy Smith and Sunny...but Sunny no showed twice.  Bobby also tried to get the Road Warriors, so we out bid him for them and Buff Bagwell.  We had Bret Hart booked too but it was when he had his stroke and had to pull out.

Our financial backer had basically pulled out in mid 2002 when he got bored.  But we kept it a secret and everyone thought we had a millionaire backer.  Bobby threw in the towel and closed TRCW and came to us (PCW).  The remnants of TRCW were picked by Royce (he and my partner Mike disliked each other so Royce had not been asked to come to PCW initially).  Royce called his group ICW and they ran Doubles Bar.  Eventually Royce closed ICW and did come to PCW.

A side note in the "never trust anyone", Bobby was working for us but had talked to Coyotes about doing shows.  He figured we'd hear about it so came to us and said it was a one off show and would be a PCW show.  But in reality he was negotiating a weekly guarantee and went to our roster and began asking guys to prepare to jump ship.  One of the guys tipped us off and Bobby's project never happened (he said not enough guys were willing to jump).

Le Rendezvous closed and CWF was basically finished...they kept promoting but not very well and without a good roster.  His last gasp was leaving the NWA for a project called Ring Warriors which was a group of former NWA affiliates that wanted to create a "new" NWA.  Dusty Rhodes was involved.  And actually, Ernie had Dusty call our financial backer and try to convince him to financially back Ring Warriors.  It never got off the ground.

In mid 2003, we promoted a show that was supposed to feature D-Lo Brown.  The venue (The Avenue) backed out at the last second and it never happened.  That contributed to me and my partner having a falling out.  Mike quit in August 2003.

At the same time, CWF had rebounded by piggy backing on Bobby's efforts and convinced Coyotes to pay him a $750 weekly guarantee (a lot of money back then).  Coyotes liked the idea of beating The Palladium at wrestling.  They were also unhappy because we used to film amusing vignettes and in one, we filmed Mike "walking" from the office on North Pembina to The Palladium to the song "500 Miles" and in one scene, he pissed on the side of Coyotes.  This got back to them and they werent amused.

But CWF's crew was mainly older veterans who didnt really fit the "young, cool, nightclub" vibe, they never drew well and my now-ex partner was down there every day with his friends talking in the ear of management.  CWF got thrown out.  Mike ran a show called "AWE" with Dan Severn and Buff Bagwell.

The politics and craziness were off the charts around this time.  My former financial backer even threatened to kill me (send me a picture of him pointing a gun and holding a sticky note that said 'dont mess with Jon').  There was even talk of mafia hits.  It was stupid.

But...the BEST time for wrestling was around the corner.  In December 2004, we brought in Jim Neidhart and packed the Lid (Palladium).  But it wasnt "our style" but we knew we could make money with names.  So we proceeded to, from 05-07, bring in Amazing Red, Petey Williams, Chris Sabin, Samoa Joe (3 times), Aj Styles, Johnny Devine, Steve Corino, Chris Daniels, Ultimo Dragon.  Mike started WFX and had a plethora of big names like the Steiners, Rikishi, Billy Gun, Severn, Bagwell, Jerry Lawler, Ultimo Dragon.  So, a good time to be a local fan.

The Lid closed and we moved on to Dylans and brought back Corino, Davey Richards, Keven Owens, Sammy Zayn, Honky Tonk Man.  And ofcourse, for most of this time we had Kenny Omega as a regular.  CWE was sort of a splinter group from us, brought in Daniel Bryan, Rollins and several Ring of Honor guys.

Oh and Ernie Todd sold the CWF to an Ontario group and they still run shows today, just not in Manitoba.  Mike had several projects too big to sustain themselves and quit for a long time.  He attempted a comeback in November but cancelled due to low ticket sales (wrong mix of "names").  Bobby Jay still works, mainly for CWE.  And Robby Royce recently returned to PCW (you can see him this Saturday at Doubles).

There's local wrestling in a nutshell.

@JCon you mentioned Alex Rain.  A really good wrestler.  One thing that I noticed, every "generation" builds on the previous.  So like Royce was ahead of his time.  But then Rain was great and Mentallo was great.  Then you had Madison and Damon.  Then Stevens and Omega, Scorpio and Rawskillz. Danny Duggan and AJ Sanchez were in that generation and really good too.   And now guys like Jackie Lee, the next generation.  It keeps turning over.  Which is probably the only reason I still do it.

Its like community theatre for actors that want to make it i Hollywood.  You do it because every so often, someone comes along that becomes an Oscar winner.

Anyway....whew.  That was a walk down memory lane.

This was super fun to read through. Every time I see someone on twitter talking about wanting to see a Kenny Omega vs AJ Styles match, I smile knowing that I saw that very match over 10 years ago. WFX was fun but it was pretty obvious from the start that it wasn't going to work. Also, Paul Diamond was raised in Winnipeg and moved back when his father was was terminally ill.

[The Unknown Poster]

@ediger thanks!  i couldnt remember why Paul Diamond was here.  I was told there was a bidding war for his services and the CWF won by putting him on salary as their trainer.

Someone recently suggested I put Omega vs Styles on a site where you can sell views or something.  They thought I could make tens of thousands from people all over the world paying a small fee to watch it.  I dont know.  Maybe.  Im sure it would garner interest.  But I have to find it! lol

My feeling on WFX was the money out was never going to be recouped.  For example, once you announce (for the same show), Billy Gunn, Rikishi, Christopher and whomever, is Virgil going to sell you another ticket?  Are there people who say "nah, I wont pay to see all those guys...wait!  Virgil??  Take my money!"  So to me, you're giving away names to the same market.  You'll sell the same tickets to see Kishi and Gunn as you will them plus 4 other guys.

But the way it was explained, their gamble was getting regional TV deals based on the recognizable names.  So where some station manager in rural Texas doesnt know who Samoa Joe or AJ Styles are, they get giddy thinking about Scott Steiner and Billy Gunn and would make you an offer.  They thought they could get enough TV deals to justify the expense.  They were crazy to think that.  But thats what they thought.  The days of regional TV deals paying for a promotion are long over.  And no one is getting a national deal.

So then if you want to be in the wrestling business, whats the economic model?  If you're spending $60,000 per show, you're screwed.   Indy wrestling is almost entirely gate driven.  Ring of Honor was successful on the back of the DVD business but that isnt there anymore either.  The only promotion I know of that succeeds on DVD sales is PWG in California and they're very unique in being the ONE promotion that is considered the crown jewel of indies and they deliberately keep themselves "small". 

So you have to manage your expenses to where you can break even on gate revenue, sponsors, bought shows. 

When WFX tried to run this past November (as Wrestling Supercard) it was doomed to fail.  They announced the same passe names, no "cool indy" names which are the draw now and needed 1000 tickets sold to break even.  They barely sold double digits, let alone triple, let alone 1000.  Just different visions for a different time.

Can you sell 1000 tickets to an indie show in Winnipeg?  We did it twice (Eddie, Honky, Beefcake and LOD, Bagwell) but that was 2002.  I could sell 1000 right now...I have an idea.  But its the only thing that would sell 1000 tickets in 2018 AND make a profit.

[ediger]

7 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

I could sell 1000 right now...I have an idea.  But its the only thing that would sell 1000 tickets in 2018 AND make a profit.

I think it might require some bucks who are fairly young...

[The Unknown Poster]

Just now, ediger said:

I think it might require some bucks who are fairly young...

And they are very busy and very expensive.  If only you know someone that is really close to them that could put in a good word...

[ediger]

Just now, The Unknown Poster said:

And they are very busy and very expensive.  If only you know someone that is really close to them that could put in a good word...

Too bad there's nobody like that around, eh?

[The Unknown Poster]

And Joe is hurt again.  Tough break.  No details.

Update: plantar fascia rupture

Edited January 9, 2018 by The Unknown Poster

[JCon]

There HAS to be a way to syndicate and sell a promotion to Netflix (or equivalent). A weekly/monthly show that builds a catalogue that you can access. Maybe add in regional tapes for a backlog. Awesome.