Wrestling

[The Unknown Poster]

So Brock's new deal wasnt signed until Wrestlemania Sunday.  Talk about waiting til the last minute.  And it was a raise (incredible), possibly for only the last match in Saudi.

The plan was agreed to on RAW before WM.  Very very few people knew the change in finish for Brock/Roman.  Roman showed up at WM thinking he was going over for the title and was told of the change.  The ref walked to the ring thinking it was Roman over.  Crazy.

Brock has not entered USADA testing yet which he has to do for six months before he can fight in the UFC so his talk of fighting might just be leverage to get a better deal in WWE.

[sweep the leg]

I'm a casual wrestling fan, and I wouldn't have any idea who Kenny Omega is if I didn't read this thread.

[The Unknown Poster]

6 minutes ago, sweep the leg said:

I'm a casual wrestling fan, and I wouldn't have any idea who Kenny Omega is if I didn't read this thread.

As a casual wrestling fan who uses a local sports forum, your fandom has resulted in you knowing who Kenny is.  Which sort of proves my point. lol

Again, silly debate as the original intent was to knock Kenny with a made up story about celebrities and the Jets.

Edited April 12, 2018 by The Unknown Poster

[Rich]

3 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

lol you'd have to define "casual".  But ofcourse you not knowing who Kenny is does not mean no one else would.  Its pretty hard for a casual wrestling fan to have not heard of him.  A non-wrestling fan, sure.  A person aware of wrestling but doesnt watch, yes.  But, depends on definition.

I know many people who dont watch wrestling at all that told me they heard of Omega. 

Again, silly debate as the original intent was to knock Kenny with a made up story about celebrities and the Jets.

What would be your definition of a casual wrestling fan?

[The Unknown Poster]

Just now, Rich said:

What would be your definition of a casual wrestling fan?

Sorry Rich, I edited my post which you quoted before my edit.

Honestly, its not really up to me to define casual in this discussion.  Because the post that kick started the debate was clearly made up (it didnt make sense as it was written) and was about celebrities doing promos for the Jets.  The Jets have nothing to do with wrestling so one has nothing to do with the other.

Its not a personal affront to me and Im not arguing because Im offended.  Im simply correcting a myth.  It speaks to wrestling as a whole, not just Kenny, that indy wrestling (and ROH/New Japan) have become incredibly popular in the last couple of years or that Bullet Club merch (including Omega merch) were everywhere at last year's WM, being worn by WWE fans.

The line between WWE fan and "hardcore" fan is the narrowest its ever been.  "Casual" might be a good description for many people who attend WWE house shows who go because its WWE and may not even know half the guys on the show.  But if you watch/follow WWE you have a pretty good chance of having heard of Kenny since his name has been mentioned on their programming and website and many of their talent have mentioned him on their official social media.

[sweep the leg]

1 hour ago, The Unknown Poster said:

As a casual wrestling fan who uses a local sports forum, your fandom has resulted in you knowing who Kenny is.  Which sort of proves my point. lol

Again, silly debate as the original intent was to knock Kenny with a made up story about celebrities and the Jets.

Fair enough. I have nothing against this gentleman.

Think he ever ends up in wwe?

[Brandon]

I would think that the average person wouldn't have a clue who many of the top WWE guys are these days.    

[bigg jay]

Just now, Brandon said:

I would think that the average person wouldn't have a clue who many of the top WWE guys are these days.    

Agreed.  I've seen multiple posts on facebook in the last 24 hours (mainly from older people) who had no who Jericho is & were wondering why he was hosting the Jets block party yesterday.  You tell them he's a wrestler and the reply back is usually "oh that's why I don't know him then". 

[Rich]

Discussion was around casual wrestling fan not average person.  

Would be surprised if a casual wrestling fan has never heard of Jericho. 

 

[bigg jay]

1 minute ago, Rich said:

Discussion was around casual wrestling fan not average person.  

Would be surprised if a casual wrestling fan has never heard of Jericho.

Disagree, it may have veered in that direction with a couple posts but the original post that started the discussion was about the average person.

22 hours ago, Goalie said:

I like Omega but bottom line... Most casual fans have no idea who he is. 

The Jets are doing local winnipeg celebrities thing where they all say a thing about the whiteout. I said what about omega.. Everyone who responded said.. Who? 

He isn't known enough. I like him.. Hes a great wrestler and hes doing winnipeg proud but the majority have no idea who he is. 

[Rich]

4 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

Disagree, it may have veered in that direction with a couple posts but the original post that started the discussion was about the average person.

Probably the source of the disagreement then. 

I read this I like Omega but bottom line... Most casual fans have no idea who he is.    with casual wrestling fan being implied.   If you use the word fan, you have to be a fan of something.

The next line in the quote would imply average person (The Jets are doing local winnipeg celebrities thing where they all say a thing about the whiteout. I said what about omega.. Everyone who responded said.. Who? ).  

So we could probably go back to the regular scheduled wrestling discussion.   

[The Unknown Poster]

1 hour ago, bigg jay said:

Disagree, it may have veered in that direction with a couple posts but the original post that started the discussion was about the average person.

Clearly it was about casual wrestling fans.  The post Goalie replied to with the weird story about celebrities was the post I made about Reigns tweeting and Kenny replying.  Why would someone reply to that, reference casual fans, and be talking about casual fans of something other then wrestling?  Most people following wrestling enough to follow Roman likely know of Omega.

We know the original intent anyway...lol

Although the point that some people were asking on social media who Jericho was is certainly interesting.  He's a pretty big cross-over celebrity and of course, you will always have people who dont know who everyone is.  When Randy Savage died, I was surprised my mom knew who he was and knew it was newsworthy enough to call me to tell me she had seen it.  lol

[The Unknown Poster]

This show is certainly something...

Rusev vs Undertaker in a casket match has been changes to Undertaker vs Jericho in a casket match.  Rusev had tweeted "Bury be softly, brother" so no telling if that salted WWE's nuts enough to make the switch.

Friday April 27th in Saudi Arabia.  Live on the Network beginning at 10am.  No women allowed and I imagine Finn tones down the gay pride too.  Money talks!

• 50-man Greatest Royal Rumble match
• Universal Champion Brock Lesnar defending against Roman Reigns in a steel cage match
• John Cena vs. Triple H
• The Undertaker vs. Chris Jericho in a casket match
• Intercontinental Champion Seth Rollins defending against The Miz, Finn Balor, and Samoa Joe in a ladder match
• Cesaro & Sheamus vs. either Matt Hardy & Bray Wyatt or The Revival for the vacant Raw Tag Team titles
• SmackDown Tag Team Champions The Bludgeon Brothers defending against The Usos
• WWE, United States, and Cruiserweight Championship matches that have yet to be revealed

Edit: Rey Misterio now added to this show 

 

Edited April 12, 2018 by The Unknown Poster

[wbbfan]

For the first time in a gazillion years i watched a bit of wrasslin. Watch the highlights then most of the RR match. Is it messed up that RRs punches looked dramatically better then HHHs? maybe im crazy or just not knowledgeable when it comes to wrestling, but she seemed to toss em pretty good in general. HHH seemingly annoyed and mildly ego bruised by her onslaught was pretty good too.  It seemed like her flurry against wifey was getting a bit meh, then that body shot lol. again maybe she did some trickery but that last body shot seemed pretty solid. 

[Atomic]

For sure.  Rousey is a natural.  This clothesline into a roll was sick.  She moves really well.

 

[SpeedFlex27]

22 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Of all the things to be embarrassed while watching? Lol

No, Adam Rose was someone else. He was released awhile back. Similar gimmick as far as having an entourage dancing him to the ring  

That's what I meant.  His character is just recycling the garbage Rose did.  Maybe instead of him feuding with a bunny, it'll be a goose. 

 

22 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Agreeing with an incorrect fact doesn’t make it true. 

You're hardcore. As well as in the business. You have to look at the person who could take it or leave it as far as wrestling goes. It's not WWE so they don't follow. I missed the discussion above so I'm probably covering ground already discussed, 

Edited April 13, 2018 by SpeedFlex27

[The Unknown Poster]

12 hours ago, wbbfan said:

For the first time in a gazillion years i watched a bit of wrasslin. Watch the highlights then most of the RR match. Is it messed up that RRs punches looked dramatically better then HHHs? maybe im crazy or just not knowledgeable when it comes to wrestling, but she seemed to toss em pretty good in general. HHH seemingly annoyed and mildly ego bruised by her onslaught was pretty good too.  It seemed like her flurry against wifey was getting a bit meh, then that body shot lol. again maybe she did some trickery but that last body shot seemed pretty solid. 

Her strikes looked more realiastic than most wrestling punches but in wrestling you're going more for theatrical than realistic so she looks unique and real.  WWE actually has Seth Petruzelli on staff at their Performance Centre as a striking coach and he worked with Stephanie a lot before WM.

8 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

That's what I meant.  His character is just recycling the garbage Rose did.  Maybe instead of him feuding with a bunny, it'll be a goose. 

 

You're hardcore. As well as in the business. You have to look at the person who could take it or leave it as far as wrestling goes. It's not WWE so they don't follow. I missed the discussion above so I'm probably covering ground already discussed, 

I agree but the WWE audience is largely smarter than its ever been in the sense they arent *only* WWE fans.  Their house show business is more the traditional idea of casual WWE fans.  When Styles debuted he got a huge reaction but had never been in WWE had had spent the previous couple years in Japan.  Nak got a huge reaction too.  Joe.  Even Karl Anderson and Luke Gallows.  Lots of Bullet Club merch, chants etc by WWE crowds.

The cool thing is, when it comes to discussing the popularity of indy wrestling is the Bucks and Omega have become very successful non-WWE talent to the extent they have merchandise deals with mainstream retailers in the US.  And if you follow WWE, like I said before, Omega's name has been mentioned on their programming and many times on social media of WWE guys.  So you'd have to be a "casual" fan of WWE that mostly just tunes in once in a while for a big show.

Its a good debate though and when you bring up the fact Im in the business, its something I have to consider when I've brought in talent - how much will they draw, how well known are they etc.  For example, Ryback is a pretty big ex-WWE name but my understanding is he wants $5000 per appearance.  I know a promotion in SK has him coming in but I'd never spend that money.  When Kurt Angle first left WWE, I was the first promoter to try to book him and was quoted $5000 and I said Ill book him multiple times at that price (price was raised to $10,000).  That was at a time when $1000 was a high price for a guy.  Now, the non-WWE guys are getting well above that price.

[Atomic]

2 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

And if you follow WWE, like I said before, Omega's name has been mentioned on their programming and many times on social media of WWE guys.  So you'd have to be a "casual" fan of WWE that mostly just tunes in once in a while for a big show.

I think that's really it right there.  I know plenty of guys who watch only the big four, or just Royal Rumble and Wrestlemania.  And there is no chance they have any clue who Kenny Omega is.

[Goalie]

There are way more casual wrestling fans who have no idea who Omega is than there are Marks on the internet who do. I know who Kenny is but.. Im a mark. TUP is a mark..Brandon and Atomic appear to be marks also. 

But casuals like Sweep... No idea. 

Hes the audience wrestling tries hard to target... They dont target their shows to the marks who will likely watch regardless. 

The fact he has no idea who Omega is or only knows of him because he's been mentioned a few times here... Proves that the majority have no idea who Kenny is. 

Bottom line... 78000 or so in NOLA to watch Mania... Of those 78000, i bet maybe 5000 know who Kenny is. 

Just because Marks are loud means nothing... Its the ECW thing... A vocal very very vocal minority. 

Edited April 13, 2018 by Goalie

[Goalie]

Turns out Asuka responds back to everyone she can... 

She tweeted a pic of her with hall and pac... #NWO

I responded back.. OWO.. Old World Order. 

She messaged me and said thank you for being a fan. Pretty awesome

[The Unknown Poster]

29 minutes ago, Goalie said:

There are way more casual wrestling fans who have no idea who Omega is than there are Marks on the internet who do. I know who Kenny is but.. Im a mark. TUP is a mark..Brandon and Atomic appear to be marks also. 

But casuals like Sweep... No idea. 

Hes the audience wrestling tries hard to target... They dont target their shows to the marks who will likely watch regardless. 

The fact he has no idea who Omega is or only knows of him because he's been mentioned a few times here... Proves that the majority have no idea who Kenny is. 

Bottom line... 78000 or so in NOLA to watch Mania... Of those 78000, i bet maybe 5000 know who Kenny is. 

Just because Marks are loud means nothing... Its the ECW thing... A vocal very very vocal minority. 

That wasn't the point you originally made.  You took a usual swipe at Kenny in the context of celebrities doing promo work for the Jets.  Someone even noted that many Jets fans didnt know who Chris Jericho was when he did Jets promo work. 

Certainly, of non-WWE talent, Omega is likely the most well known (hence his mainstream merchandise, repeated mention by WWE guys etc).  He might be the highest paid too.

And one person not knowing who Kenny is certainly does not prove anything any more than one person knowing who he is proves everyone does.   For me, it became really telling about 1.5 years ago when a co-worker, a woman in her 50's over-heard me taking about our show and said she didnt watch wrestling at all and asked if we ever used wrestlers she mght have heard of.  I said probably not, our top guy is Kenny Omega but he works primarily in Japan and she said "oh I've heard of him!  I have no idea where but I dont know anything about wrestling and even I've heard of him."  She likely heard him on TSN or in the newspaper or an ESPN article.

I was quite surprised.  But of course, her knowing about Kenny doesn't mean everyone has.  It just means he's "out there" enough that people who dont watch a single second of wrestling could hear about him.  And there aren't too many non-WWE guys like that.  I think that is something we can all agree on.

As for New Orleans, the 65,000 there are not "casual" WWE fans (the "big four PPV" types).  And I guarantee you far more than 5000 know who Kenny is.  The reverse might be true where only 5000 would NOT know who he was.  That's a smart crowd.  Its not a Kenny thing either, they reacted big to debuts of guys like Styles, Joe, Nak, Anderson.  Omega is more well known now then all of them were when they debuted (maybe not Styles...very similar though AJ had the national TV stuff with TNA).  Casual fans dont travel for wrestling...

[The Unknown Poster]

30 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Turns out Asuka responds back to everyone she can... 

She tweeted a pic of her with hall and pac... #NWO

I responded back.. OWO.. Old World Order. 

She messaged me and said thank you for being a fan. Pretty awesome

Couple of my guys were in New Orleans and ran into her, spent time hanging with Shayna, met Cena etc.  Said everyone was cool.  I read a story from a fan who ran into Kota and Kenny and asked for a photo and within seconds they were surrounded but made sure to get pics with everyone who wanted. 

I imagine it can get annoying but for WM week, they all seem to enjoy it.

[The Unknown Poster]

Rusev apparently deleted everything related to WWE from his social media and reverted to his real name.  Could be working people.  But he and Lana have consistently been in hot water for awhile.

He'd do quite well outside of WWE.

[SpeedFlex27]

6 hours ago, Atomic said:

I think that's really it right there.  I know plenty of guys who watch only the big four, or just Royal Rumble and Wrestlemania.  And there is no chance they have any clue who Kenny Omega is.

I only watch WWE. TNA I never watch. ROH if nothing else is on.  As Sweep The Leg said, if Omega's name didn't come up here, I'd have never heard of him.

[wbbfan]

On 4/13/2018 at 8:46 AM, The Unknown Poster said:

Her strikes looked more realiastic than most wrestling punches but in wrestling you're going more for theatrical than realistic so she looks unique and real.  WWE actually has Seth Petruzelli on staff at their Performance Centre as a striking coach and he worked with Stephanie a lot before WM.

I agree but the WWE audience is largely smarter than its ever been in the sense they arent *only* WWE fans.  Their house show business is more the traditional idea of casual WWE fans.  When Styles debuted he got a huge reaction but had never been in WWE had had spent the previous couple years in Japan.  Nak got a huge reaction too.  Joe.  Even Karl Anderson and Luke Gallows.  Lots of Bullet Club merch, chants etc by WWE crowds.

The cool thing is, when it comes to discussing the popularity of indy wrestling is the Bucks and Omega have become very successful non-WWE talent to the extent they have merchandise deals with mainstream retailers in the US.  And if you follow WWE, like I said before, Omega's name has been mentioned on their programming and many times on social media of WWE guys.  So you'd have to be a "casual" fan of WWE that mostly just tunes in once in a while for a big show.

Its a good debate though and when you bring up the fact Im in the business, its something I have to consider when I've brought in talent - how much will they draw, how well known are they etc.  For example, Ryback is a pretty big ex-WWE name but my understanding is he wants $5000 per appearance.  I know a promotion in SK has him coming in but I'd never spend that money.  When Kurt Angle first left WWE, I was the first promoter to try to book him and was quoted $5000 and I said Ill book him multiple times at that price (price was raised to $10,000).  That was at a time when $1000 was a high price for a guy.  Now, the non-WWE guys are getting well above that price.

That makes sense.  the punches always seemed kinda poor quality to me, that or like they legit snuck a punch in. but then its gotta be really hard to fake a punch like that.