Wrestling

[Atomic]

Honestly I'm having trouble watching these days.  Nothing.  Ever.  Happens.  They run the same matches with the same wrestlers week after week.  There is not a single entertaining storyline that makes me want to tune in.

[The Unknown Poster]

17 hours ago, Atomic said:

Honestly I'm having trouble watching these days.  Nothing.  Ever.  Happens.  They run the same matches with the same wrestlers week after week.  There is not a single entertaining storyline that makes me want to tune in.

Yup. Very boring. Very vanilla. Although SD was a lot better this week but mainly for good work not good stories  

Moving to fox should improve things but likely just for short term. And it’s not til next year. 

 

[The Unknown Poster]

18 hours ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

Couple of things;

1. wasn't it proven that Fridays were not a good night for wrestling? Friday Smackdown became Thursday Night Smack down then eventually tues. I know for me personally there was a time,  and at the time,  there's not a chance in hell I'd catch an episode of SD cuz Friday night after a week of work was go kick it with a few beers and the boys... which kind of sucked because back when storylines were actually a thing (seems like not so much anymore) SD was a continuation from Raw not seen as an separate entity as it is now so I'd only catch the aftermath on those like video segments on Raw the next monday.

2, Will there be any issue having wrestlers jump shows (like Cena as the self proclaimed FA)? I'd imagine the networks wont tell Vince and Co how to run their shows, but I wonder if they feel they'd be losing potential viewership if bigger name draws are suddenly on a different networks version of WWE

SD was originally on Thursday. It was created as competition for WCW Tbunder.   

Friday is generally a poor night for tv though wrestling holds its audience a bit better. 

It moved to Tuesday because USA wanted it live and it was very difficult for wwe to do a live production on fridays with their schedule. Presumably Fox would want it live so I’m not sure if wwe will hire a separate production team or just work their current team on a tough schedule. 

I’ve seen the issue of guys moving back and forth come up but raw and sd were on different networks before with no issue. When it debuted there was no brand split and guys worked both. I think it will be the same. 

But it really makes SD the key show because it’s on the main network. Fox will want big stars. You can almost certainly pencil in ronda for SD. If brock is there, him too. 

But it’s all speculation right now. 

[The Unknown Poster]

Some more TV news (this is the biggest news, perhaps in WWE history), from Mr Metlzer:

- Both TV deals go into effect October 2019 and run for 5 years

- RAW remains on USA from 8-11:05 (Eastern)

- SD moves to FOX, Friday 8-10PM (Eastern

- estimated by one insider as worth about $4 million per week, and printed reports listed it as $205 million per year (virtually the same) and the two deals combined were talked about in the $445 million to $475 million range.

- The WWE’s deals with both USA and FOX, for a combined $2.2 billion to $2.4 billion over the five years, covers October 1, 2019 through September 30, 2024.

- According to Sports Business Journal and other industry sources, FOX was wanting exclusivity for UFC, although was willing to accept a joint offer, but not at the $10 million per show price tag, although that figure is a little misleading because there is a lot of other programming involved. FOX told WME IMG last week that they were pulling their offer off the table, which clearly coincided with using that $200 million budgeted and offered to sign WWE. It’s notable that they, in making the choice, felt 52 weeks of Smackdown on Friday nights was more valuable than 20 UFC shows combined with the ancillary programming that to a degree carried FS 1 and dominated programming on FS 2, which will now have hundreds of hours that would be needed to fill. FS 1 does consider ESPN its prime rival, so UFC going to ESPN may have changed the dynamic as compared if they had gone with NBC or Turner.

- “UFC played chicken with FOX and lost.”

- FOX had recently canceled several popular shows and the word from those within the organization just a few weeks ago to us was it was getting rid of some regular programming to clear the deck for WWE programming, but at the time the belief was that was for Raw, which USA Network looks to have kept, since it had the right in its contract to match any outside offer. USA made the decision to match the biggest outside offer for Raw. USA declined to match the Smackdown offer.

- Vince McMahon’s WWE stock value would be $1.845 billion, and in a trivia note, it is possible he could be worth more overall than Ted Turner for the first time ever.

- WWE actually had a slightly higher bid from either Amazon or Facebook, but going with FOX was a no-brainer because it would be far better than either streaming service

- FOX has also promised to heavily promote its WWE content during its other sports like NFL, College Football and Major League Baseball games.

- Regarding WrestleMania week, in theory this would move the Smackdown show in the city from the Tuesday night to the Friday night. That would put it against the major indie shows in the past that ran on Fridays. Saturday would likely be NXT and ROH’s big show, so most of the top indies would stay away from that night. So the question becomes if they would stay away from Friday as well and move to Thursday. The Hall of Fame would have to move to either Thursday or Tuesday, with Thursday making far more sense.

- While Friday night is a worse night for drawing viewers than Tuesday, the increase in exposure from being on the FOX Network, both because it’s a far higher rated station, and because it is available in far more homes, will more than offset it. In fact, it would be expected that Smackdown would have more viewers than Raw, because of the power of FOX and far greater visibility.

- There is also a risk involved, in the sense that there is far more pressure on network television to draw ratings. If Smackdown can’t do competitive numbers, it could be moved, taken out of prime time, moved to FS 1 or dropped at the end of its contract. Unlike with USA, where it’s a lock that Raw will no matter what be among the top rated cable shows, even if it goes back to heavily declining numbers like from 2015 to2017.

- Starting in October 2019, the single biggest priority for the company would be the Friday night ratings on FOX, far more than USA’s ratings, and thus, the biggest events should be slated for there.

- growth, or lack of growth in the network number, which was seen as the key figure in analyzing WWE business, is now pretty much meaningless. The network was thought to be the future, but the network is now just an ancillary form of income and traditional television is the future, at least until the end of 2024, or longer unless the bubble bursts.

- literally they could double everyone’s current pay tomorrow, and they would still be paying at the same rate as UFC, and at about one-fourth the rate of major sports. The point being, the idea of offering someone a $3 million per year guarantee to leave New Japan, whether they’d want to do it or not, is something they could easily afford to do now, but in 2020, they could offer someone $5 million without blinking an eye.

[Brandon]

2 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

- literally they could double everyone’s current pay tomorrow, and they would still be paying at the same rate as UFC, and at about one-fourth the rate of major sports. The point being, the idea of offering someone a $3 million per year guarantee to leave New Japan, whether they’d want to do it or not, is something they could easily afford to do now, but in 2020, they could offer someone $5 million without blinking an eye.

Confirmed  Kenny Omega is coming to WWE for 5 million per year! 

[The Unknown Poster]

20 hours ago, Brandon said:

Confirmed  Kenny Omega is coming to WWE for 5 million per year! 

Yeah I dont know if I agree with the idea WWE *will* up offers significantly over what they would before these new TV deals.  They usually adhere to a pay structure though they have paid more for special guys, like Brock.  Ronda obviously.  Omega is probably number one on their list.  Okada would be there too.  It would take a lot to get Okada to leave Japan.  I dont think money is the way to get Kenny (though he's a businessman so if they offered something crazy, he'd have to consider it).  Things like schedule, creative and merchandising might mean more.

Being in bed with FOX might mean more for some guys too, if there are cross-branding opportunities.  Kenny could benefit from that.

It all comes down to what Vince is willing to spend.  And I have never heard what he thinks of Kenny.  Kenny has always been a Hunter & Regal guy and they've wanted him for years.  But if WWE gets annoyed by New Japan or shows like All In, its so easy for them to make deals the top guys there cant refuse.

[The Unknown Poster]

Pretty big signing for fans of women's wrestling, WWE signed Io Shirai from Stardom (women's promotion in Japan).  Real name Masami Odate, 28.  She had a heart issue that was discovered during WWE medicals but has since received a clean bill of health.  WWE has been interested for awhile but their offer is less money than she makes now, but the upside of making it big in WWE is what is attractive.

Top female wrestler in Japan for years.

[Atomic]

The problem with Japanese wrestlers like Asuka and Shinsuke, and presumably Shirai now as well, is that they can't speak English.  I can never understand what they are saying.  Great wrestlers sure... but that's only half the battle.  If you are incapable of delivering a promo then how can you really be a professional wrestler?

[The Unknown Poster]

15 minutes ago, Atomic said:

The problem with Japanese wrestlers like Asuka and Shinsuke, and presumably Shirai now as well, is that they can't speak English.  I can never understand what they are saying.  Great wrestlers sure... but that's only half the battle.  If you are incapable of delivering a promo then how can you really be a professional wrestler?

Plenty of American wrestlers can't cut good promos either.  Nak is a decent promo.  I assume you're referring to his accent?  Its likely true that some North American fans would have trouble relating to non-white and non-accented wrestlers but Nak is pretty effective in what he does and pretty over.

Its probably more the fault of how they are booked that WWE traditionally has difficulty booking non-English speakers in roles that aren't stereotypes.  WWE has a documentary up about Nak and its far more effective than their booking in making him relatable as a person.

But guys not being good promos is something that has existed for 100 years in wrestling and there are ways to over-come it.  Brock Lesnar is generally a terrible promo and he's the world's champion.  Ronda is so-so as a promo.  You'll always have racism in wrestling (like anything else) or white-centric but I think talent gets over with most of the fans.

WWE is very keen to push stars of other ethnicity because its so important to their global business and they have to support that by featuring that talent on their main programming.  I actually think what they're doing with Nak as a heel ("No speak Engrish") is pretty effective because he does speak English and is capable of getting his point across even if his accent is fairly thick.

But of course it is very important for talent to learn the language.  One reason Mistico didnt work out was he didnt try to learn the language.  On the flip side, in Japan, Omega learned the language.  We had a female Japanese wrestler on a show a couple of years ago and she spoke very little English but Kenny spoke to her in Japanese.

[Atomic]

It's not that I have any problem with someone having an accent or being clearly a non-native speaker... it's more that I literally can't understand what they are saying.

A week or two ago, Shinsuke cut a promo on the stipulation for his and AJ's match at Money in the Bank and I honestly had no clue what the stipulation was.  I simply couldn't understand what he said.

The same thing happened when Asuke lost to Charlotte.  She said something and I had no clue what it was.

Certainly with Shinsuke, the mouthguard isn't doing him any favours either.  And you can tell when they hit a line in a promo and the crowd is dead silent because they're all thinking... "What did he/she say??"

Of course both are hugely over right now, so it's probably a minor thing.  But as more Japanese wrestlers come over... they can't all be doing the "no speak English" bit.

[The Unknown Poster]

31 minutes ago, Atomic said:

It's not that I have any problem with someone having an accent or being clearly a non-native speaker... it's more that I literally can't understand what they are saying.

A week or two ago, Shinsuke cut a promo on the stipulation for his and AJ's match at Money in the Bank and I honestly had no clue what the stipulation was.  I simply couldn't understand what he said.

The same thing happened when Asuke lost to Charlotte.  She said something and I had no clue what it was.

Certainly with Shinsuke, the mouthguard isn't doing him any favours either.  And you can tell when they hit a line in a promo and the crowd is dead silent because they're all thinking... "What did he/she say??"

Of course both are hugely over right now, so it's probably a minor thing.  But as more Japanese wrestlers come over... they can't all be doing the "no speak English" bit.

As I recall, they didnt say what the stip was in that promo.  It was Nak joking that it would be a pillow fight.  I understood him just fine.  He might be putting on the accent a little thicker on purpose, Im not sure.  The mouth guard for sure doesnt help.  Cesaro sounded rough wearing his too.

Talent rises when booked right.  There's an argument for letting them (or one of them as a gimmick) cut their promos in Japanese.  I think Asuka did that once and because she's sounding confident when she speaks her native language, it came across well even though most fans would have no idea what she said.

[Atomic]

1 minute ago, The Unknown Poster said:

As I recall, they didnt say what the stip was in that promo.  It was Nak joking that it would be a pillow fight.  I understood him just fine.  He might be putting on the accent a little thicker on purpose, Im not sure.  The mouth guard for sure doesnt help.  Cesaro sounded rough wearing his too.

Talent rises when booked right.  There's an argument for letting them (or one of them as a gimmick) cut their promos in Japanese.  I think Asuka did that once and because she's sounding confident when she speaks her native language, it came across well even though most fans would have no idea what she said.

He did, at the end of the promo.  They fought a little bit and then Nak stood up and declared that it would be a "LAUSCHT MONNN SHTUNNNDDDINGG!" match to utter silence from the crowd.  But even when he said Pillow Fight I had no idea what he said until AJ repeated him... and again, silence from the crowd.

I don't hate the idea of cutting some promos in Japanese.  Asuka was doing that during the mixed tag tourney with The Miz and she comes across so much stronger when she's allowed to speak her own language.

[The Unknown Poster]

2 minutes ago, Atomic said:

He did, at the end of the promo.  They fought a little bit and then Nak stood up and declared that it would be a "LAUSCHT MONNN SHTUNNNDDDINGG!" match to utter silence from the crowd.  But even when he said Pillow Fight I had no idea what he said until AJ repeated him... and again, silence from the crowd.

I don't hate the idea of cutting some promos in Japanese.  Asuka was doing that during the mixed tag tourney with The Miz and she comes across so much stronger when she's allowed to speak her own language.

Ah fair enough.  I watched some of that promo as I usually dont watch SD or watch on FF.  When they did the pillow fight gag, I FF'ed though I understood him just fine.

There is still some powerful old guard types in WWE that might be moved along when Hunter takes over and speaking their own language might be something more allowed.  I find the shows that Kevin Dunn doesnt produce to be a lot better (and word is, he's gone the second Hunter is allowed to can him).

[Atomic]

Honestly I just feel bad for Nak when the crowd doesn't react and I do feel like the language barrier is hurting him.  He's a hell of a wrestler... him vs Sami Zayn at the pre-WM NXT Takeover in 2016 (or was it 2017?) remains one of the best matches I've ever seen.

[The Unknown Poster]

1 minute ago, Atomic said:

Honestly I just feel bad for Nak when the crowd doesn't react and I do feel like the language barrier is hurting him.  He's a hell of a wrestler... him vs Sami Zayn at the pre-WM NXT Takeover in 2016 (or was it 2017?) remains one of the best matches I've ever seen.

I'd be fine putting him with Heyman as a mouthpiece where Nak only had to say a few words.  Actually, the idea of Nak physically reacting to Heyman's promos sounds awesome and hilarious.

[The Unknown Poster]

Some rasslin news from Mr Meltzer & Hollywood Reporter:

- WWE's *current* TV rights package pays them $160 million per year for BOTH RAW & SD on USA.  Their new deals will pay $265 million per year for RAW and $205 million per year on FOX.  They are FLUSH with cash when these deals come into effect.  Those are average over the five year deals (starts out a bit lower, then exceeds in year 4 & 5)

- USA offered $360 per year for BOTH RAW & SD on a ten year deal.

- USA was shocked when bidding on SD became so hot and bowed out when it hit $200 million (USA had the right to match any offers).

- SD will be live (meaning a change in how WWE runs their schedule with their production team and talent having an early call time for TV)

- FOX chose WWE over UFC

- Rupert Murdoch was actually at the negotiating table for FOX.  Vince McMahon was notably absent (biggest deal in WWE history).  WWE had their two co-Presidents plus Steph & Hunter at the table (which speaks volumes).

- FOX had screens with Ronda on them on the negotiating room (Ronda being under contract increased WWE's value to FOX in a big way).

- Rupert Murdoch told WWE that "USA was embarrassed" by wrestling and didnt do enough to promote it and claimed FOX would promote WWE across all of it's live sports programming

- Lachlan Murdoch called Vince and pushed that this was a "marriage of the Murdoch & McMahon families".

- Anonymous FOX source said UFC was a hard sell but WWE presents opportunities to make more cash

- WWE is worth about $4.5 Billion right now

- Brock isnt scheduled to be back until Summerslam (and great timing for him with both WWE & UFC getting new TV deals that give them more cash to play with)

- WWE looks to have signed Deonna Purrazzo and Io Shirai (possibly debuting in the Mae Young Classic).  Shirai had a crazy story in 2012 where she and her then-bf were busted in Japan for smuggling pot into the country in two paintings (huge no-no in Japan).  A Japanese wrestler in Mexico then claimed he planted the drugs on them and was paid to do so by someone with a grudge against the bf.  She was released.

- Stacy Kiebler is pregnant with her second child

- John Hennigan (Johnny Nitro/John Morrison/Johnny Mundo) is in the upcoming season of survivor

- The slander lawsuit by WWE's doctor Dr. Christopher Amann (Backed by WWE) against C.M. Punk and Colt Cabana kicked off on 5/29 in Chicago.   Basically, Punk, after quitting WWE, went on Cabana's podcast and said Dr Amann sucked and didnt treat what turned out to be a potentially life-threatening staph infection.  Amann's position is, Punk is lying about him sucking and never brought the infection to him for treatment. 

- Terrible timing for Punk who is required to be in court when he should be training for his UFC fight.  Amann admitted he has not suffered financially but claims emotional distress because people said mean things on twitter.  Yikes.

[Taynted_Fayth]

I'd be in favor of bringing back more managers as the voices of bad promo wrestlers.  Obviously Heyman is a great example of it currently working  but IMHO back in the day managers were just as integral part of the wrestling landscape. Guys like Bobby Heenan, Mr. Fuji, Jim Cornett, Jimmy Hart, Paul Bearer... they were at times just as fun to watch and help stories unfold as the wrestlers themselves. I wouldn't oppose getting back to that. The current state of just pitting wrestlers with wrestlers (Titus World Wide for example) doesn't quite do it the way Heyman does in over all cause and purpose for me.

[The Unknown Poster]

10 minutes ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

I'd be in favor of bringing back more managers as the voices of bad promo wrestlers.  Obviously Heyman is a great example of it currently working  but IMHO back in the day managers were just as integral part of the wrestling landscape. Guys like Bobby Heenan, Mr. Fuji, Jim Cornett, Jimmy Hart, Paul Bearer... they were at times just as fun to watch and help stories unfold as the wrestlers themselves. I wouldn't oppose getting back to that. The current state of just pitting wrestlers with wrestlers (Titus World Wide for example) doesn't quite do it the way Heyman does in over all cause and purpose for me.

Vince (and I believe Kevin Dunn) just dont believe in them.  Even Heyman, it was a Brock demand.  When Brock was first signed back with WWE, he was without Heyman.  His first promo sucked and Brock was angry and demanded they bring in Heyman for him.  Its why they rarely use Heyman for anyone else either (Punk got Heyman for a bit but Punk had a lot of stroke and of course, Joe Hennig had him for a bit too).

Word is Ronda would like to have Heyman with her too (doubtful to happen as Steph doesnt like Heyman).

Imagine the Revival with Jim Cornette as their manager?

[Taynted_Fayth]

1 minute ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Vince (and I believe Kevin Dunn) just dont believe in them.  Even Heyman, it was a Brock demand.  When Brock was first signed back with WWE, he was without Heyman.  His first promo sucked and Brock was angry and demanded they bring in Heyman for him.  Its why they rarely use Heyman for anyone else either (Punk got Heyman for a bit but Punk had a lot of stroke and of course, Joe Hennig had him for a bit too).

Word is Ronda would like to have Heyman with her too (doubtful to happen as Steph doesnt like Heyman).

Imagine the Revival with Jim Cornette as their manager?

The Revival seem like a good technical tag team but they lack a bit of pizzazz. I suppose a hot valet can do the trick but I miss the cheap shottin cartoony character you just know will have an influence on matches 

[The Unknown Poster]

4 minutes ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

The Revival seem like a good technical tag team but they lack a bit of pizzazz. I suppose a hot valet can do the trick but I miss the cheap shottin cartoony character you just know will have an influence on matches 

We had a manager working with us that submitted tape to WWE years ago.  He was good enough to be on WWE TV.  But that was pre-Heyman and WWE definitely wasn't going to hire him.

Hunter might be more open to it.  There is a feeling he might end up running SD.

[Taynted_Fayth]

I don't think HHH ever had a "manager" persay. I vaguely remember him be escorted to the ring by some hot ass broads back when he was the "Connecticut Blueblood" Hunter Hearst Helmsley and then later often escorted by Chyna when he was running DX. Seems like a Valet is ok but a manager is not these days

[Atomic]

As far as I'm concerned Mr Fuji was the best of all time.  Throw salt in the eyes.  Fantastic.

[Taynted_Fayth]

I like Mr Fuji cuz he reminded me of Odd Job

[The Unknown Poster]

1 hour ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

I don't think HHH ever had a "manager" persay. I vaguely remember him be escorted to the ring by some hot ass broads back when he was the "Connecticut Blueblood" Hunter Hearst Helmsley and then later often escorted by Chyna when he was running DX. Seems like a Valet is ok but a manager is not these days

Yup.  I danced with a girl at Grapes on Main when I worked there.  She told me she was in town for a photo shoot and was a Playmate.  Yeah right, I thought (she looked the part though).  Saw her later on TV escorting Hunter to the ring.

Hunter was a big Four Horseman fan though.  I think he'd be more open to just about anything.  Whereas Vince has his stubborn rules (no managers), if Hunter thought a guy could be a star with a mouthpiece, he'd probably do it.

[ediger]

I'll never understand McMahon's dislike for managers. There's so many possibilities you are eliminating when you don't have them.