Wrestling

[Brandon]

1 hour ago, The Unknown Poster said:

I’d like to see WWE have a pension plan but their position would be they pay enough to guys to manage their own finances.  They do provide rehab for anyone which is pretty generous. 

Anyone except Jason Sensation apparently... listened briefly to his interviews after his fake shooting up live show stunt and apparently they won't speak to him....  

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, The Unknown Poster said:

My issue is when old timers sue based on the idea wwe knew and they didn’t. There is common sense involved in head shots.  The company rewarded people for risks and there is merit to holding them accountable for that.  But Saturn worked for ecw and wcw for years before wwe. 

Wwe is pretty careful about head trauma now. And you accept a risk because even easy bumping could be causing issues.  

I’d like to see WWE have a pension plan but their position would be they pay enough to guys to manage their own finances.  They do provide rehab for anyone which is pretty generous. 

Guys used to take chair shots to the front of the head & it wasn't just a one time deal. They did it all the time. How can that not cause problems years later. Look at Chris Benoit. 

[johnzo]

On 2018-09-14 at 6:37 PM, The Unknown Poster said:

I’ve been a promoter for 17 years. And I love talking wrestling.  There are some great and knowledgeable posters here. Ask away!!

Youre in Seattle?

Yup, in Seattle.

thanks for offering to answer questions!  Here's the main one: how tightly is a match scripted? do the wrestlers know all the moves they're going to do ahead of time or are they improvising sometimes?

[The Unknown Poster]

8 hours ago, Brandon said:

Anyone except Jason Sensation apparently... listened briefly to his interviews after his fake shooting up live show stunt and apparently they won't speak to him....  

Im not sure I'd take him at face value.  Their rehab program has been pretty generous.  I believe they sent Sunny multiple times...finally announced they would never send her again and then quietly did send her again.

8 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Guys used to take chair shots to the front of the head & it wasn't just a one time deal. They did it all the time. How can that not cause problems years later. Look at Chris Benoit. 

Chair shots to the head would be one of the worse things guys did to hurt their brains but for a time, it was standard operating procedure.  WWE should take some responsibility for that but my point is, how can you sue WWE for not protecting you from CTE if no one knew about CTE at the time.  The NFL got in trouble because there was evidence they DID know and didnt disclose that.  Old timers from the 70's/80's in any sport suing the league or company for not disclosing information they had no reasonable expectation to posses doesnt sit right.  On the other hand, if you worked for a league for your career and are now suffering, there should be a morale obligation to assist.  The problem is, WWE doesnt have a pension plan and many of the guys worked all over the world....if they worked for NWA/WCW for 10 years, Japan for 7 years and WWE for 4 years, why should WWE be responsible?

Now that WWE is aware of brain injury, they actually are the safest promotion in the world in that regard, from having a special super-padded ring for training, making trainees wear helmets, banning head shots, banning most neck moves etc.  WWE generally has a higher injury rate than New Japan, likely due to their schedule but they are protective of the head.

7 hours ago, johnzo said:

Yup, in Seattle.

thanks for offering to answer questions!  Here's the main one: how tightly is a match scripted? do the wrestlers know all the moves they're going to do ahead of time or are they improvising sometimes?

Depends on the promotion and the talent.  It used to be much more the wrestlers but WWE asserts more control over the details.  How it generally works is, the writers work on RAW all week, go back and forth with Vince and others all weekend (in the 90's, the bookers would go to Vince's house).  On Monday, when the script was more or less locked, they'd have a production meeting that included the agents (WWE now calls them producers) to go over the show and what the writers (and Vince's) intentions are for the story they're telling.

Each segment is assigned an Agent (an agent can have more than one segment).  When talent arrives, they check the run sheet (the synopsis of the show) to see who their agent is and go seek him/her out.  The agent conveys the story and works with the talent to put their match/segment together.  The agent is responsible for ensuring the rules and WWE's vision is adhered to (so if Seth said he wants to do a pile driver, the agent would nix it).  So the talent has a lot of say in that regard but within the context of the story WWE is telling and their style.  Thats why a lot of WWE matches have similar tropes.

WWE also books for TV so for example, there has to be a spot at a specific time where the action spills to the floor and everyone is down so they can go to break...or Corbin slaps on a 4 minute chin lock while they're on commercial etc.

When segments are bad or guys do **** they shouldnt, there is often heat on the agent.   You can see a difference between RAW and NXT where the agents are conveying Vince's vision on RAW whereas conveying Hunter's vision on NXT.  

Some WWE agents are Arn Anderson, Mike Rotundo (IRS), Jamie Noble, Fit Finlay, Adam Pierce...and I think Winnipeg's own Sarah Stock is an agent too.  

New Japan provides more freedom to the wrestlers to come up with all their stuff.  

Individually, some wrestlers prefer to have every detail mapped out while some prefer to have a basic outline and call it in the ring.  Flair & Steamboat had some of the greatest matches ever and both preferred to just go to the ring without a plan.  Randy Savage was notorious for wanting every detail mapped out (his WrestleMania 3 match against Steamboat was heavily rehearsed).   Hogan/Warrior was heavily rehearsed.  

On the indies, most guys would have the freedom to put their matches together and most guys would go over it beforehand.  You might have a booker who is more tightly controlling but I always feel like indies are for learning and guys need the freedom to explore to really learn what works and what doesnt (and then you provide them feedback after). 

So for example in my promotion, we have a crew meeting before the show where I briefly go over the entire show with some key storyline stuff.  I used to go over it in more detail but I find its easier to save the details for smaller groups.  So after the meeting (sometimes before as guys arrive), I'd meet with guys in a match or segment and go over the storyline aspects and whatever ideas I have.  Generally, I'd provide a finish which could be "whatever you want" or "you over clean, however you want" or "you over via shenanigans, however you want".  Sometimes I have a finish in mind and will suggest that and unless the guys have a better idea, thats what we do.  Sometimes I have an idea for how to start the match or a spot during the match. 

Mostly, Im providing story beats and they come up with how to convey it.  Every booker has a style and certain "rules" to how they put shows together.

For really green guys (rookies), I've given a lot of detail but as Im not a worker, I dont feel its my strength so I generally dont.  We have a lot of veterans so usually young guys are working with a veteran and sometimes Ill specifically designate a guy to "agent" a match.

For what its worth, Kenny goes over his matches/segments in detail before hand.  It used to be something less athletic guys would use as a criticism "real workers call it in the ring".  But these super talented guys today, they can go into a match totally blank but their focus is on the best match they can do so they like to go over it beforehand. 

EDIT: And I should add, the timing of the match is probably more important to the company.  In WWE, Billy Kidman times the matches and its super important (he sits at the Gorilla Position, behind the curtain and keeps the time).  All In almost blew it because two matches went long and they got off the air with 3 seconds left in their PPV satellite time.  So even in New Japan, they might not give Kenny and Okada details for their match but they will definitely give them time. ie. 25 minutes and you better hit it as close as possible.

Since the big promotions have wireless headsets to convey orders to the refs its easy for time and commercials etc, because the ref will relay it.  For smaller promotions like mine, you'll just see me angrily motioning towards the guys...lol

Edited September 19, 2018 by The Unknown Poster

[johnzo]

Great response! Thanks TUP.

[The Unknown Poster]

So on the subject of Saudi Arabia, this is hilarious.  Its Undertaker & Kane vs HHH & Michaels, in HBK's first match in 8 years.  He always turned down their offers to return but the money was too much to ignore.  The Saudi government are basically wrestling fans from 10-20 years ago.  They had some weird requests, like I think Yokozuna was one of them...or someone who was dead anyway.

So, Kane didnt want to do it because he's the Mayor of Knoxville and he felt it looked bad politically.  So WWE donated $100,000 to a Knoxville charity on Kane's behalf.  So he'll do it. lol  Good for him!

[Brandon]

28 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

So on the subject of Saudi Arabia, this is hilarious.  Its Undertaker & Kane vs HHH & Michaels, in HBK's first match in 8 years.  He always turned down their offers to return but the money was too much to ignore.  The Saudi government are basically wrestling fans from 10-20 years ago.  They had some weird requests, like I think Yokozuna was one of them...or someone who was dead anyway.

So, Kane didnt want to do it because he's the Mayor of Knoxville and he felt it looked bad politically.  So WWE donated $100,000 to a Knoxville charity on Kane's behalf.  So he'll do it. lol  Good for him!

Perhaps Kane can also come back with:

[The Unknown Poster]

WWE will be launching a tiered price for the Network.   That's why people think the Impact/WWE meeting was about the library, with Impact supposedly doing the pitching.  I cant see WWE willing to air Impact without owning it, though they had considered airing some smaller indies on the network, but Vince always changed his mind.  And I cant see the Fight Network selling the TNA library because its the whole reason they bought it in the first place.

WWE does own Progress and ICW tape libraries (UK-based indies) and have sat on them.  But they're probably saving them for the Network Tier pricing.  Having TNA's library would be a good hook for that and WWE negotiated to buy TNA a couple of years ago but they never get into bidding wars.  They have a value they put on libraries (an amount per hour) and they wont pay more.

I think thats a bit stubborn in the case of TNA as its 16+ years of turn-key footage, meaning it's ready to air as-is...cataloged, on masters, HD, ready to go.  Its an enormous library.  And it contains some of the best matches of key WWE guys like AJ Styles and Samoa Joe as well as the last match of Ric Flair, years of Sting, the whole Hogan thing etc.

WWE had minor talks with ROH too.  If they could ever secure both ROH & TNA libraries, it would be a great thing for the Network.

[ediger]

5 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

So on the subject of Saudi Arabia, this is hilarious.  Its Undertaker & Kane vs HHH & Michaels, in HBK's first match in 8 years.  He always turned down their offers to return but the money was too much to ignore.  The Saudi government are basically wrestling fans from 10-20 years ago.  They had some weird requests, like I think Yokozuna was one of them...or someone who was dead anyway.

So, Kane didnt want to do it because he's the Mayor of Knoxville and he felt it looked bad politically.  So WWE donated $100,000 to a Knoxville charity on Kane's behalf.  So he'll do it. lol  Good for him!

Are we finally going to get Hogan/Warrior II?! 

[Brandon]

14 minutes ago, ediger said:

Are we finally going to get Hogan/Warrior II?! 

You did get Hogan Warrior 2.......    Voted worst match ever in WCW.

I was going to post a picture of the imposter warrior in WCW...  but even he is also dead.... 

[ediger]

1 hour ago, Brandon said:

You did get Hogan Warrior 2.......    Voted worst match ever in WCW.

I was going to post a picture of the imposter warrior in WCW...  but even he is also dead.... 

In my mind, that match never happened.

[Brandon]

3 hours ago, ediger said:

In my mind, that match never happened.

[JCon]

On 2018-09-20 at 9:42 AM, The Unknown Poster said:

HBK's first match in 8 years. 

Sweet Chin Music is one of my favorite finishing moves of all time. Simple and looks great. It didn't require too much build up (except the foot stomp bit). 

Also, the Stinger Splash. Not exactly Sting's finishing move but I loved when he did it back in the NWA, then WCW, days. 

 

A question for all: What are your favorite finishing or "signature" moves? 

Edited September 21, 2018 by JCon
Added more content.

[JCon]

47 minutes ago, JCon said:

Sweet Chin Music is one of my favorite finishing moves of all time. Simple and looks great. It didn't require too much build up (except the foot stomp bit). 

Also, the Stinger Splash. Not exactly Sting's finishing move but I loved when he did it back in the NWA, then WCW, days. 

 

A question for all: What are your favorite finishing or "signature" moves? 

 

I couldn't find a good video of a classic Stinger Splash, when Sting could get wayyyy up in the air like back in the NWA days. 

[Brandon]

Sting used to be jacked up big time when he was tagged with the Warrior.

His body transformation in  literally a year was pretty crazy from being huge to not so huge.   I'd assume it was the anabolic steroids that caused this?

[JCon]

4 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Sting used to be jacked up big time when he was tagged with the Warrior.

His body transformation in  literally a year was pretty crazy from being huge to not so huge.   I'd assume it was the anabolic steroids that caused this?

That was a time when Big Poppa Pump was the true freak of nature. That was a crazy time for drugs in wrestling. I don't doubt that there are still plenty of steroids going around but they're probably far more educated about what they're putting in their bodies. 

 

[The Unknown Poster]

2 minutes ago, JCon said:

Sweet Chin Music is one of my favorite finishing moves of all time. Simple and looks great. It didn't require too much build up (except the foot stomp bit). 

Also, the Stinger Splash. Not exactly Sting's finishing move but I loved when he did it back in the NWA, then WCW, days. 

 

A question for all: What are your favorite finishing moves? 

Superkick is definitely up there.  I actually use it as a catch-all when giving direction (ie. "hit the ring, superkick,...") meaning a quick, visually strong move.   

Stonecold Stunner also a favourite.  I had hoped WWE would give Ronda Rousey the stunner.  Its quick, visually impressive, easy to hit etc.  Ronda's current move requires too long to set up and cant really be done with multiple people.

I'm also partial to the Alabama Jam, Spinebuster Slam, Superplex (you can tell Im a fan of old school JCP/NWA - Eaton, Anderson, Windham).

[The Unknown Poster]

55 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Sting used to be jacked up big time when he was tagged with the Warrior.

His body transformation in  literally a year was pretty crazy from being huge to not so huge.   I'd assume it was the anabolic steroids that caused this?

Nah, probably his diet.  

[bigg jay]

1 hour ago, Brandon said:

Sting used to be jacked up big time when he was tagged with the Warrior.

His body transformation in  literally a year was pretty crazy from being huge to not so huge.   I'd assume it was the anabolic steroids that caused this?

Sting has openly admitted to using in his pre/early wrestling days & said that he completely stopped in 1990 (he was already a star with WCW at that point).

[Brandon]

1 hour ago, bigg jay said:

Sting has openly admitted to using in his pre/early wrestling days & said that he completely stopped in 1990 (he was already a star with WCW at that point).

When he was a blade runner he was massive like Warrior... next year he looked like he shedded 50 lbs of muscles and was lean and not bulky.    It just amazes me how a body can change so fast.    

Similar to when Ahmed Johnson went to WCW and his belly was absolutely massive. 

 

 

[Brandon]

2 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

I'm also partial to the Alabama Jam, Spinebuster Slam, Superplex (you can tell Im a fan of old school JCP/NWA - Eaton, Anderson, Windham).

No love for the Perfect Plex? 

 

[Jpan85]

Stunner absolutely #1 quick efficient move can easily mow through a ring full of opponents. 

[JCon]

1 minute ago, Jpan85 said:

Stunner absolutely #1 quick efficient move can easily mow through a ring full of opponents. 

And, as a bonus, it allowed for a huge reaction (bounce) from the receiver. 

The stunner was deadly finishing move. 

[bigg jay]

8 minutes ago, JCon said:

And, as a bonus, it allowed for a huge reaction (bounce) from the receiver. 

The stunner was deadly finishing move. 

This is a huge factor in how well the stunner did.  I, personally, always preferred the Diamond Cutter as there was more variety to it but Austin always had people (for the most part) who could sell it so well.  The fact that Austin was way more over than a guy like DDP plays a big part too. 

[JCon]

1 minute ago, bigg jay said:

This is a huge factor in how well the stunner did.  I, personally, always preferred the Diamond Cutter as there was more variety to it but Austin always had people (for the most part) who could sell it so well.  The fact that Austin was way more over than a guy like DDP plays a big part too. 

Agreed.

Even though I thought highly of DDP, I always saw him as a USA Champion sort of guy and not a world champion, even though he had a good run near the top. Totally perception.