Wrestling

[SpeedFlex27]

The right thing would be not top go as they look like they're supporting a murderous regime. 

[Brandon]

9 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

The right thing would be not top go as they look like they're supporting a murderous regime. 

Money is king

[The Unknown Poster]

WWE released third quarter results today (on pace for record revenue) and had this to say:

Quote

• WWE has operated in the Middle East for nearly 20 years and has developed a sizable and dedicated fan base. Considering the heinous crime committed at the Saudi consulate in Istanbul, the Company faced a very difficult decision as it relates to its event scheduled for November 2 in Riyadh. Similar to other U.S.-based companies who plan to continue operations in Saudi Arabia, the Company has decided to uphold its contractual obligations to the General Sports Authority and stage the event. Full year 2018 guidance is predicated on the staging of the Riyadh event as scheduled

Word is, they are hoping the State Department tells them not to go so they can back out with an excuse.  Earlier today an extra show in Manchester suddenly appeared on some event page sites and then disappeared.

Also, they also LOST money on house shows this quarter.  Thats a stat that the old Vince would have been going nuts over as he always considered live events to be a key metric to determine how they're connecting with the audience.  Might be time to cut back live events.

Edited October 25, 2018 by The Unknown Poster

[The Unknown Poster]

Here’s the answer as to why they desperately want to go 

 

 

[The Unknown Poster]

POP TV  moved Impact to 10PM time slot (Fight Network also did which is curious since they own the promotion) and they drew 98,000 viewers, a very dismal number.  Its disappointing because Don Callis & Scott D'amore have largely turned the company around since they've been running it.  The creative is better, quality of talent is tremendous and no embarrassing news coming out.  But the fans just arent watching.

[Atomic]

2 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

POP TV  moved Impact to 10PM time slot (Fight Network also did which is curious since they own the promotion) and they drew 98,000 viewers, a very dismal number.  Its disappointing because Don Callis & Scott D'amore have largely turned the company around since they've been running it.  The creative is better, quality of talent is tremendous and no embarrassing news coming out.  But the fans just arent watching.

It seems to me they did best when they had all the old guys like Sting and Kurt Angle and whoever else.  That was the appeal... seeing the legends still working.

Now they're more directly competing with ROH and NJPW with their product (lots of younger talent, indie style wrestling) and they are kinda starting from square one.  A typical wrestling fan would probably watch WWE/NXT, NJPW and ROH before Impact so they have a tough climb to get back the share they once had.

[ediger]

On 2018-10-25 at 10:20 AM, The Unknown Poster said:

WWE released third quarter results today (on pace for record revenue) and had this to say:

Word is, they are hoping the State Department tells them not to go so they can back out with an excuse.  Earlier today an extra show in Manchester suddenly appeared on some event page sites and then disappeared.

Also, they also LOST money on house shows this quarter.  Thats a stat that the old Vince would have been going nuts over as he always considered live events to be a key metric to determine how they're connecting with the audience.  Might be time to cut back live events.

Considering they have cameras at all of the live events now and all of the airtime available on the network, they should start booking some storyline advancements on house shows and do a weekly recap on the network. Cut back the number of house shows and at least have the potential for the event to mean something.

[The Unknown Poster]

8 hours ago, ediger said:

Considering they have cameras at all of the live events now and all of the airtime available on the network, they should start booking some storyline advancements on house shows and do a weekly recap on the network. Cut back the number of house shows and at least have the potential for the event to mean something.

On the earnings call, Vince said he knew what was wrong with house shows and how to fix it.   I think declining house show numbers are a direct result of poor creative in general.  When the product is hot, people go to the live shows.  When its not, they dont.

You're probably right as they are considering a revival of Saturday Night's Main Event as a Network show which would be an enhanced weekly house show.

[ediger]

3 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

On the earnings call, Vince said he knew what was wrong with house shows and how to fix it.   I think declining house show numbers are a direct result of poor creative in general.  When the product is hot, people go to the live shows.  When its not, they dont.

You're probably right as they are considering a revival of Saturday Night's Main Event as a Network show which would be an enhanced weekly house show.

That's definitely the biggest part of it. I suppose when I was younger, I didn't care that nothing would happen at the house shows I went to. It was still an opportunity to see Stone Cold, Chris Jericho, Eddie Guererro, Kurt Angle, The Undertaker, Edge & Christian, etc.

[The Unknown Poster]

33 minutes ago, ediger said:

That's definitely the biggest part of it. I suppose when I was younger, I didn't care that nothing would happen at the house shows I went to. It was still an opportunity to see Stone Cold, Chris Jericho, Eddie Guererro, Kurt Angle, The Undertaker, Edge & Christian, etc.

Same can be said for having a hot worker.  When AJ Styles signed with WWE, it was more to keep him away from TNA.  Vince had zero plans for him.  Suddenly, his house show attendance shot up and Vince was convinced he was a draw and pushed him on TV.

I think its part of the desire to sign Kenny Omega.  His house show numbers will go up, no doubt.  Of course, the first time everyone can see him, pushes that number up, but I guarantee Kenny would work a house show style different than others.  His matches will be must-see.  If he goes...I mean.

WWE will try a million different things to raise attendance before accepting the fact their creative and the way they produce TV is boring, formulaic and passe.

[Brandon]

If Vince were to drop dead ,  would they then change how this are produced creatively?

 

[The Unknown Poster]

20 minutes ago, Brandon said:

If Vince were to drop dead ,  would they then change how this are produced creatively?

 

Yes. Hunter would be running RAW & SD with his team of creative people. Who knows how quickly he would transition.  And there are some guys that might be considered Hunter guys in creative now (Road Dogg, Ryan ward)). 

It’s long been said that Vince’s long-time executive producer & director Kevin Dunn is not liked by Hunter & Steph so he’d likely be on the outside looking in. 

NXT has been around long enough that you can get a sense for how hunter would book. 

But there are some thoughts that hunter may gain more power with SD when it moves to FOX. It’s really important to fox and Vince hardly goes to SD now (and even misses some RAWs). Fox wants a more sports reality presentation with SD.

rumors of Daniel Cormier being considered for a commentary spot. 

Edited October 29, 2018 by The Unknown Poster

[JCon]

2 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

But there are some thoughts that hunter may gain more power with SD when it moves to FOX. It’s really important to fox and Vince hardly goes to SD now (and even misses some RAWs). Fox wants a more sports reality presentation with SD.

I know they treat SD and RAW as separate entities in terms of talent and booking but, back in the day, I never thought of them as creatively different. If they move SD towards a reality presentation, do they keep RAW more traditional? 

[The Unknown Poster]

44 minutes ago, JCon said:

I know they treat SD and RAW as separate entities in terms of talent and booking but, back in the day, I never thought of them as creatively different. If they move SD towards a reality presentation, do they keep RAW more traditional? 

I can’t say for sure. Speculation. But I think raw would be largely the same barring Vince stepping aside. But I think SD will be different.  

FOX wants to promote it via their sports programming and its being produced by Fox Sports not the tv side. So they want Ronda. Brock. Etc. 

[The Unknown Poster]

As noted, Cena is off Crown Jewel.  Im guess its less his own moral issue and more his agent/publicist/studio advising against it.  They had been hoping to change his mind.

Rumor is Bryan is off as well.  

Evolution was actually really good.  Nikki rose to the occasion against Ronda.  Becky/Charlotte was tremendous.

[The Unknown Poster]

Bryan off.  Hogan on.  And just for fun, Renee Young is on too.   Wonder how they react when they see her Canadian passport!

[SpeedFlex27]

3 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Bryan off.  Hogan on.  And just for fun, Renee Young is on too.   Wonder how they react when they see her Canadian passport!

Bryan didn't want to go?

[The Unknown Poster]

19 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Bryan didn't want to go?

They're keeping the story pretty quiet but thats the word.  He refused to go.

[SpeedFlex27]

6 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

They're keeping the story pretty quiet but thats the word.  He refused to go.

Good for him. Although Vince could fire him. 

[The Unknown Poster]

11 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Good for him. Although Vince could fire him. 

Bryan just signed a new deal and I wonder if it included the ability to decline certain dates.  WWE previously screwed with Bryan by initiated a terrible clause in all contracts whereby if a talent is hurt, they can tack the missed dates to the end of the deal.  In Bryan's case, WWE refused to clear him from concussion and thus, claimed his contract would never end since he was permanently hurt.

Bryan basically said he'd leave WWE as soon as his contract expired and was considering legal action.  WWE ended up bringing him back as a character so his contract started ticking down again.  A few months before it expired, they "suddenly" cleared him to wrestle.

When they were negotiating an extension, WWE claimed his contract didnt end until next year.  Bryan claimed it ended this year (Sept 1, I believe).  Bryan ended up signing a new deal so it didnt matter.  But I suspect WWE made some concessions.  They wont fire him and I doubt they punish him because he's pretty vocal and it would look awful to punish a guy for not wanting to go to Saudi Arabia.  Although, its been a while since a top face tapped out clean. (which Bryan did to AJ).

[The Unknown Poster]

To follow up, Meltzer reported in his latest newsletter that Bryan didnt want to go, partially because of the treatment of women but also because of how homosexuals are treated and the fact Sammy Zayn was banned, which he felt was racism.  He knew nothing about Saudi Arabia before going for the GRR earlier this year and none of the talent knew it was going to be a government-paid propaganda exercise.

[The Unknown Poster]

And some interesting news coming out of the Jericho Cruise.  Really, the biggest news in wrestling is where will Kenny Omega go, and that really becomes a "where does the Bullet Club go".

Cody Rhodes' contract is now expired so he's a free agent.  The Bucks expire at the end of the year and Kenny's expires end of January.  WWE wants them all.  ROH wants them all.  New Japan wants them all.

On the Cruise, Cody said he "swore to God he wasnt going to WWE" but later said his wife and the other guys gave him **** for saying that.  They also announced that they were all no longer part of the Bullet Club and that they were "The Elite".  They had previously announced their Bullet Club merch was ending at the end of the year and only their individual merch and Elite merch would be sold moving forward.

The Elite group (Kenny, Cody, Bucks, Hangman Page) have said they are very serious about wanting to stay together as a group and make a group decision on where they go next.  Hangman Page declined both WWE and ROH recently to remain a free agent while waiting for everyone's contracts to expire.

There are rumors of a "billionaire" wanting to invest with Jericho and Jim Ross involved.

Supposedly ROH's parent company Sinclair (which is a huge media company, owns the largest TV station group in the US and is far richer than WWE) was looking to invest more heavily in ROH but it seems that has changed as ROH's offers to guys have not been enough to secure them.

Conflicting reports on guys being upset with New Japan management.

And its being reported WWE has made offers to everyone including developed an initial angle for them to debut.  WWE is cognizant of tampering (as they got in trouble when offering ROH guys deals before they were free agents).  But with key guys being free already, those talks can happen (and I know one key guy who has an agent when he never did before so he can receive offers).

It really cant be over-stated how critical all this is.  If the Elite guys do stay together, they will have an impact on the wrestling landscape in a way Im not sure we've seen since Hall & Nash jumped to WCW.  

If they all go to WWE, you always risk WWE screwing it up but I strongly suspect that they'd have certain contractual assurances and freedoms.  Plus, its Hunter driving this bus, not Vince.  Vince calls the final shots though but I really think this would be a Hunter thing in a way it hasnt been before. 

It would give WWE an injection of fresh blood, especially with Kenny who is the best chance to be a major game changer since Cena (and I think if done right, he can be the next cross-over mega star in the vein of Austin or Rock....not saying he'd be THAT big, just that vein of mega star).   It would drastically help House Shows which lost money for the first time in forever and especially with Roman out, Kenny as the new face is something pretty obvious (and Cody could be an upper card star and I like Page a lot too).

If they all stay with some combination of ROH/New Japan, especially New Japan, it allows them to continue investing in a US/Global expansion that becomes a lot harder without those guys.  It likely allows them to do an All In 2 that Cody really wants to do.  It allows them to keep doing the Being The Elite steaming show (which does very well).  Word is WWE is fine with them continuing the show (and I could see it becoming a Network show actually).

Anyone want to make predictions on what happens?  I had an interesting conversation with Kenny two weeks ago...I have never asked him point blank what his plans are because I dont want him to either have to lie to me or divulge info to me that he feels uncomfortable divulging.  But when we've discussed his future in the past, he's always been pretty frank (when the first "will he or wont" debate raged a few years ago, he emailed me to say he was staying in New Japan before anyone knew, for example).

He told me he legitimately doesnt know what they're going to do.  I said, well let me give you my hypothesis...and he said sure.  I told him what I thought and he had a big smile and said I was "very hot" (when asked if I was cold or warm).

[JCon]

3 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

It would give WWE an injection of fresh blood, especially with Kenny who is the best chance to be a major game changer since Cena (and I think if done right, he can be the next cross-over mega star in the vein of Austin or Rock....not saying he'd be THAT big, just that vein of mega star).   It would drastically help House Shows which lost money for the first time in forever and especially with Roman out, Kenny as the new face is something pretty obvious (and Cody could be an upper card star and I like Page a lot too).

Fresh blood and something other than all the distractions to talk about. 

What WWE news has been positive recently?

[The Unknown Poster]

2 minutes ago, JCon said:

Fresh blood and something other than all the distractions to talk about. 

What WWE news has been positive recently?

Well Evolution was good but yeah, its kinda lost in the Saudi Arabia stuff.  They had huge profits this quarter but again, lots of declines in key metrics.  

Getting the Elite guys would be huge for WWE, especially with the new TV deals beginning in 2019.  I could see Kenny being on SD on FOX as a cross-over appeal guy.

[Brandon]

It would give WWE a fresh start and something that they could attract new viewers over.   It would be amazing if a new entity (without bad habits) could get kick started and take off and bring a brand new era of wrestling.

If they were to go to WWE,  then I don't think it's nearly the same kind of impact as Hall and Nash going to WCW...  I don't see ratings sky rocketing with the new blood.    Until they target adults like they did in the Attitude Era then I don't see it being nearly as mainstream popular as it was before.