Wrestling

[The Unknown Poster]

15 minutes ago, Mike said:

I don't think it builds to a rematch, I think it was the best way possible to humanize Brock Lesnar so that he can actually go forward as part of the roster without the need for him to run through every single wrestler on it. This just took the aura off Brock in a big way.

Goldberg was gassed by the time he finished his entrance, but man .. physically, he's in great shape. He could probably do okay as a Rumble entry, but I doubt he has much more than that in him. I'll give him credit though - as quick as the match was, he still nailed the two spears and the jackhammer. Looked pretty good.

Also - RIP Shane.

I guess its possible they dont go back to a rematch but I would be shocked.  I think its for a rematch at Rumble since they have the dome in San Antonio to fill.

The best part about this is how WWE missed the ball once again.  They didnt want Goldberg.  The video game people did.  Vince was basically talked into doing a Brock/Goldberg match to promote the video game (Brock and Bill are close friends).  And now, seeing the reaction he decided to keep Goldberg for awhile.  Same thing happened with Sting who wanted to go to WWE and Vince didnt think he was a star and didnt think anyone would know him...until they played the video game ad on RAW and he got a monster reaction.

Hopefully the video game people sign Angle next year so we can get one last run.  Heck, lets put the video game people in charge of WWE creative.

Roman screwed Shane big time on that "spear" to the chin.  Moron.

[The Unknown Poster]

NXT was really good on Saturday.  Joe/Nak was great and a bit of a surprise ending as most people figured Nak would win and Joe would get called up.  But I think Owens is sort of a block to Joe being called up because Vince can only handle one fat guy on top at a time.  Not sure how long Joe will be champ as I think Bobby Roode is being groomed as the next top guy (and they'd probably go back to a babyface first).

And Mickey James looked tremendous.  Im seriously considering trying to bring her in.

[The Unknown Poster]

Reports that WWE have hired Steve Corino to be a trainer in NXT.  Steve's ROH deal runs til end of December so he cannot officially go anywhere, but expect this to happen.  Great move by WWE.  Steve is a former World Champion, worked all over, very smart and a great teacher.  Very good commentator also and happens to be a Winnipegger.  Fellow Winnipegger Sarah Stock also trains for NXT (I heard she might be working as an agent on the main roster now too).

[Jpan85]

Loved Roode entrance he just looks like he has it coming to ring.

[Goalie]

Smackdown is so much better than raw. It's not even close 

[Rich]

Quote from later on in the article... how would this go over in the WWE dressing room?

Quote

In the lead-up to his UFC 202 fight with Nate Diaz, McGregor took a number of shots at WWE wrestlers, questioning their toughness.

"For the most part those WWE guys are [expletives]," said McGregor. "To be honest, they're messed-up [expletives] if you ask me. Fair play to Brock [Lesnar] he got in and fought, but at the end of the day he's juiced up to the [expletive] eyeballs, so how can I respect that?"

He did, however, praise the company's business acumen.

"There are some dons in that wrestling game," McGregor said. "The McMahons -- they're dons, Triple H is a don, The Rock is a don, but the rest of them are [expletives]. I don't know, I haven't really thought about that to be honest. That’s a little more show business. This is the fight business."

 

[The Unknown Poster]

He's just playing a role and most of the WWE guys know that.  Some react which is silly since its them being worked.  Connor singling out two guys who couldnt fight their way out of a wet paper back as "dons" is hilarious and shows that he's just working.

Every single guy in WWE would want that match with Connor because of the money and eyeballs it would generate.  What makes Connor attractive is exactly what WWE doesnt know how to do anymore - let personalities shine through to generate heat.

[Brandon]

1 hour ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Every single guy in WWE would want that match with Connor because of the money and eyeballs it would generate.  What makes Connor attractive is exactly what WWE doesnt know how to do anymore - let personalities shine through to generate heat.

So you mean they shouldn't dress Connor like this:

 

[SpeedFlex27]

Can anyone explain the Randy Orton-Wyatt Family thing to me  as I don't get it. 

[The Unknown Poster]

I watch SD on FF if I bother to watch at all...so nope, I cant put my finger on it at all.

[The Unknown Poster]

The saga of TNA might have finally stabilized.  Anthem (owned by Leonard Asper) has paid off Billy Corgan to make him go away.  Corgan says he will continue in wrestling in some form.  He also agreed not to sue Anthem or TNA but maintained his right to sue individuals.  There is a belief he might go after Dixie Carter personally.

[The Unknown Poster]

 

[Rich]

5 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

 

Reward for the the reported $6 Million she gave to his campaign?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/10/16/wwe-co-founder-linda-mcmahon-gave-6-million-to-pro-trump-super-pac/?utm_term=.11b17f6d12ef

[The Unknown Poster]

Absolutely.  She was up for Sec of Commerce so this isn't quite as big but still cabinet level. 

Realistically she is experienced. Not sure the optics of selecting another super wealthy friend for a position like this. Isn't Trump the choice of the working class?  Then again Linda is self made. Well she married a guy who's dad was wealthy. 

[Goalie]

Vince Dad was wealthy but it wasn't quite like the money Vince has. 

Vince is pretty much self made. Had some help along the way for sure but he's the king. 

You can say what you want but vince took his dads regional promotion and turned it in to a billion dollar entity. 

[Taynted_Fayth]

4 hours ago, Goalie said:

Vince Dad was wealthy but it wasn't quite like the money Vince has. 

Vince is pretty much self made. Had some help along the way for sure but he's the king. 

You can say what you want but vince took his dads regional promotion and turned it in to a billion dollar entity. 

definitely, he certainly put WWF on the map in the 80's then over the top with the attitude era. but as you said a lot of help along the way, but most success is

[The Unknown Poster]

Vince was incredibly lucky.  And ballsy.  And hired the right people along the way.  In some ways he's a genius.  In others, he's the emperor with no clothes.

Vince Sr's WWWF was bigger than a regional and was on its way to going national already.  The WWE narrative is that Sr would never have sold to Jr if he knew his plans but that isnt true.  Sr knew.  And if Jr hadnt attacked the other regions, someone else would have.  Both Crockett in Atlanta and Watts in Texas would have gone national and Crockett had Turner behind him.  Watts had the best TV show in the country but ran out of money trying to compete when the oil business busted and took his promotion with it.

Vince bought WWF from his dad for $1 million, far less than the company actually grossed at the time.  And he made the partners payments on the purchase fee but took ownership immediately.  Again, WWE's narrative is Jr was so ballsy he accepted a deal whereby had he missed one payment, he would have defaulted and lost everything back to the partners.  But that was impossible.  He made the payments out of revenue generated by the company.  So it was a sweetheart deal.

Jr DID risk everything on WrestleMania.  And that was not a safe bet.  He previously nearly lost it all by producing an Evel Knievel jump that flopped.  WrestleMania was looking bad until the last few days when they did incredible marketing including Mr T and Hogan on SNL.  From that point forward they were golden...until the mid 90's decline when WCW began kicking their ass.  It was a lot more brief than the narrative.  They were not good, not good, not good, horrible, great.  In fact, the time they went to Bret Hart and asked out of the contract to the time he actually left, they went from near bankruptcy to on fire.  Very short period.  97 turned it all around.  Mid 97 they were rough.  By fall they were going to be fine.

So the Linda Narrative is that she built this business and was partners with Vince and negotiated all the deals.  But the real story is that Vince made all the decisions, creative & business.  I have no doubt she helped manage the operations.  But she wasn't the secret business genius.  In fact, when Vince & Linda created Titan Sports and bought Sr's WWF, they hired a guy named Jim Barnett as Director of Operations.

Barnett was the last wrestling promoter before Linda to serve in a Presidential Administration, serving for Carter.  Barnett was a very highly respected promoter who previously worked for George Championship Wrestling (precursor, in a way, to WCW).  Barnett was forced out by Ole Anderson who accused Barnett of embezzling.  And since Barnett was in Carter's administration, Barnett left quietly to avoid the negative PR.  But he negotiated a lot of the TV deals that helped WWE expand.  In those days, there was little or no national TV.  So to create a national TV presence you had to negotiate deals with regional stations.

What Vince did in a widespread way is attacked those regional deals.  Where a regional promotion would get paid X amount for their content, Vince went in and offered their content for free.  It would be the same TV show he taped in the North East so it cost him nothing and squeezed out the regional.  He then inserted region-specific interviews with his top stars to promote upcoming live events.  He didnt invent that concept either but used it the best.  Sometimes this backfired. 

Turner was loyal to Georgia Championship Wrestling and wouldnt let Vince on his station.  So Vince bought GCW to get the timeslot but the fans were incensed about seeing WWF instead of GCW.  Turner turned around and gave Ole another timeslot, pissing Vince off and he eventually sold the slot to Crockett (which Crockett claims was the money Vince used to finance WrestleMania).

So Barnett was really part of the brains in the early expansion.  In the Saturday Nights Main Event years which was probably the glory years of the expansion, it was **** Ebersol who helped Vince upgrade all the production.  The story is Vince and Linda walked into the NBC studios and couldnt believe wrestling could look that way.

Coming out of the 90's near-bankruptcy, it was Russo who helped him immensely.  It should be noted, when Vince was on trial and had to make plans to run WWE because he thought he was going to jail, it was Patterson who was running things (I think Jerry Jarrett was there too) and Jim Ross was there also, not Linda.

[Taynted_Fayth]

gotta say I have no interest in watching SD if james ellsworth is somehow involved with the title picture...

 

dont know why but they sure like to give duds pushes sometimes and I tune out

[SpeedFlex27]

10 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Vince was incredibly lucky.  And ballsy.  And hired the right people along the way.  In some ways he's a genius.  In others, he's the emperor with no clothes.

Vince Sr's WWWF was bigger than a regional and was on its way to going national already.  The WWE narrative is that Sr would never have sold to Jr if he knew his plans but that isnt true.  Sr knew.  And if Jr hadnt attacked the other regions, someone else would have.  Both Crockett in Atlanta and Watts in Texas would have gone national and Crockett had Turner behind him.  Watts had the best TV show in the country but ran out of money trying to compete when the oil business busted and took his promotion with it.

Vince bought WWF from his dad for $1 million, far less than the company actually grossed at the time.  And he made the partners payments on the purchase fee but took ownership immediately.  Again, WWE's narrative is Jr was so ballsy he accepted a deal whereby had he missed one payment, he would have defaulted and lost everything back to the partners.  But that was impossible.  He made the payments out of revenue generated by the company.  So it was a sweetheart deal.

Jr DID risk everything on WrestleMania.  And that was not a safe bet.  He previously nearly lost it all by producing an Evel Knievel jump that flopped.  WrestleMania was looking bad until the last few days when they did incredible marketing including Mr T and Hogan on SNL.  From that point forward they were golden...until the mid 90's decline when WCW began kicking their ass.  It was a lot more brief than the narrative.  They were not good, not good, not good, horrible, great.  In fact, the time they went to Bret Hart and asked out of the contract to the time he actually left, they went from near bankruptcy to on fire.  Very short period.  97 turned it all around.  Mid 97 they were rough.  By fall they were going to be fine.

So the Linda Narrative is that she built this business and was partners with Vince and negotiated all the deals.  But the real story is that Vince made all the decisions, creative & business.  I have no doubt she helped manage the operations.  But she wasn't the secret business genius.  In fact, when Vince & Linda created Titan Sports and bought Sr's WWF, they hired a guy named Jim Barnett as Director of Operations.

Barnett was the last wrestling promoter before Linda to serve in a Presidential Administration, serving for Carter.  Barnett was a very highly respected promoter who previously worked for George Championship Wrestling (precursor, in a way, to WCW).  Barnett was forced out by Ole Anderson who accused Barnett of embezzling.  And since Barnett was in Carter's administration, Barnett left quietly to avoid the negative PR.  But he negotiated a lot of the TV deals that helped WWE expand.  In those days, there was little or no national TV.  So to create a national TV presence you had to negotiate deals with regional stations.

What Vince did in a widespread way is attacked those regional deals.  Where a regional promotion would get paid X amount for their content, Vince went in and offered their content for free.  It would be the same TV show he taped in the North East so it cost him nothing and squeezed out the regional.  He then inserted region-specific interviews with his top stars to promote upcoming live events.  He didnt invent that concept either but used it the best.  Sometimes this backfired. 

Turner was loyal to Georgia Championship Wrestling and wouldnt let Vince on his station.  So Vince bought GCW to get the timeslot but the fans were incensed about seeing WWF instead of GCW.  Turner turned around and gave Ole another timeslot, pissing Vince off and he eventually sold the slot to Crockett (which Crockett claims was the money Vince used to finance WrestleMania).

So Barnett was really part of the brains in the early expansion.  In the Saturday Nights Main Event years which was probably the glory years of the expansion, it was **** Ebersol who helped Vince upgrade all the production.  The story is Vince and Linda walked into the NBC studios and couldnt believe wrestling could look that way.

Coming out of the 90's near-bankruptcy, it was Russo who helped him immensely.  It should be noted, when Vince was on trial and had to make plans to run WWE because he thought he was going to jail, it was Patterson who was running things (I think Jerry Jarrett was there too) and Jim Ross was there also, not Linda.

Just can't say D i c k. Even in a name. That's funny.

[The Unknown Poster]

1 hour ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

gotta say I have no interest in watching SD if james ellsworth is somehow involved with the title picture...

 

dont know why but they sure like to give duds pushes sometimes and I tune out

It's pretty good. I condone anything if it's part of an interesting story and he's decent. Funny.  Styles is unbelievable and worth watching just for him. 

[The Unknown Poster]

Great article here;

https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/breaking-kayfabe-an-inside-look-at-wwes-unlikely-business-empire

Here's an interesting story that was unknown until this article:

A few years ago, as Levesque was gearing up to launch NXT, ratings were down and Vince was on edge. The writing room became a battlefield, and even people outside of the company took notice, including Shane McMahon. In March 2012, Vince, according to a source familiar with the exchange, called a surprise meeting at the WWE production office, a separate facility from the main headquarters in Stamford, Connecticut. Shane had returned with a friend: James Frey, the author of the critically acclaimed and, later, highly controversial A Million Little Pieces and by that time the CEO of Full Fathom Five, a content creation company he founded in 2010.

(A spokesperson for WWE originally denied that Shane had approached WWE in any capacity between 2009 and 2016, but later confirmed that this meeting took place when asked about this exchange specifically.)

"When Stephanie found out Shane was going to be there, she went white in the face," the source told me. "And Paul freaked out." Shane had set up the meeting through Kevin Dunn, WWE's executive vice-president of production and Vince's right-hand man for nearly three decades; he is the second-highest-paid employee at the company behind Vince (according to SEC documents, Dunn's 2016 base salary is $909,560). Shane had a simple proposal: that he take over all of creative, including the writer's room, with Frey and his team at Full Fathom Five as consultants.

"Kevin Dunn is very close to Shane," the source said. "And there's tremendous tension between Kevin, and Paul and Stephanie. They feel like the company is theirs, but they don't have power to control Kevin." Presumably, if Dunn could figure out a way to get Shane back in the company in a high-ranking position, he would have even more influence with Vince. And Shane, too, could regain control over at least a portion of his family's legacy. It was a win-win for the pair.

In the end, however, Vince declined his son's offer. It would be four more years before Shane found himself on the inside of the company again. In the meantime, WWE would go through major changes internally as it continued its transformation from a TV-only wrestling outfit to a digital-forward entertainment super-corporation.

Edited December 9, 2016 by The Unknown Poster

[The Unknown Poster]

This is a GREAT looking belt.

Also, Nigel McGuinness has left ROH and joined WWE to work on this project (sounds like he will be an announcer for the UK shows and probably a trainer too).

[Goalie]

That Network is going to be a gold mine for them, exclusive content for other countries, the fact that they are actually teaming up with independent promotions, It's crazy actually, i never would have thought that 5 years ago, you'd see the WWE ever really acknowledge that independent companies actually exist and now they are mentioning them by name and even promoting them.

 

Some talk that some American Independents like the ultra fun PWG will have shows on the Network also. 

[The Unknown Poster]

20 minutes ago, Goalie said:

That Network is going to be a gold mine for them, exclusive content for other countries, the fact that they are actually teaming up with independent promotions, It's crazy actually, i never would have thought that 5 years ago, you'd see the WWE ever really acknowledge that independent companies actually exist and now they are mentioning them by name and even promoting them.

 

Some talk that some American Independents like the ultra fun PWG will have shows on the Network also. 

PWG is interesting.  They declined to be apart of FloSlam.  And they are about the last of the DVD business model promotions that are successful.  ROH was founded on the DVD sales model.  PWG resists any effort to run TV because it would mean losing certain talent.  Right now, they can book anyone they want (non-WWE) and some guys, like the Bucks, who have signed exclusive deals with ROH, TNA or New Japan add clauses allowing them to do PWG.  They then sell their DVD's and because they have such a great rep, they make money.

It would be hard for them to be on WWE unless it was past shows but I still wonder how the contracts with certain guys would work.

In that Vice article, the former head writer had an interesting take.  He basically said that while Hunter's vision has produced the best talent and best wrestling ever, its not creating stars.  All the 5 star matches in the world cant replace the benefit of an Austin or Rock.  Its an interesting perspective.

[Goalie]

I think you can create stars pretty easily, I think the fans are dying to cheer for guys like, yeah i'm gonna say it... Sami Zayn is an example of a guy who has that IT factor to him, The problem is i think Vince and the writers don't really know what to do with these guys... you can have great wrestling matches all you want and i enjoy me a great wrestling match but to create a star, you need the machine to get behind you and push you. They were forced FORCED to push Bryan, fans wanted him for so long and they reluctantly finally pushed him and he became a star for sure, unfortunately had to retire or was forced to but... it just shows that if you actually listen to what the fans want and push the guys they want pushed, then stars can be created. The fans are rejecting a guy like Roman Reigns big time, but he's being shoved down our throats constantly, his booking has actually hurt him, he has potential or had let's say and i feel they have ruined him by shoving him down our throats making him kind of a 2016 version of the 1980's Hulk Hogan, People don't want that anymore, they want some reality behind the character, they like the under dog, the guy that perhaps gets ignored by the machine a bit, they don't care for the guy that the machine pushes.  Scripted Promos are a big problem also, You think a writer could come up with Austin 316 says i just wooped your ass? Not a chance. 

 

Gotta let these guys go out there unfiltered to an extent and let them go off script if you will and see what happens, worst case scenario? some bomb big time, best case scenario, you find a guy that perhaps has some personality but just hasn't been able to express it yet because of the scripted promos and way they have been booked.