Wrestling

[Atomic]

1 hour ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Just finished Okada/Omega II live from Japan.  

I won't post a spoiler this early. 

But if you love wrestling, go out of your way to see it. Both their matches will be studied by trainees for years to come.  

If WWE could sign one guy in the world right now it would be Kenny Omega. Unbelievable. 

Legendary!!

[The Unknown Poster]

As I'm watching I really started to think about Flair/Steamboat and the impact their series had on wrestling. 

Okada/Omega could be the modern equivalent. Let's assume there is a third match, maybe at Tokyo Dome and that probably seals it as an all time great program  

 

[Goalie]

Meh. It was a draw. It was an ok match with a couple cool spots but im sorry and i like kenny but... Their first match was better. By far. 

[SpeedFlex27]

Okada/Omega can't be the modern equivalent as not enough people have seen them wrestle. Whereas millions saw Flair & Steamboat in the 80's & 90's have some huge matches. I know some of you guys may hate to read this but the WWE is the true Big Time & until they go there just like AJ Styles did, they won't get their due. Styles is a huge star now thanks to the WWE. Much,much bigger than he was in TNA & New Japan.

Edited June 11, 2017 by SpeedFlex27

[Taynted_Fayth]

7 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Okada/Omega can't be the modern equivalent as not enough people have seen them wrestle. Whereas millions saw Flair & Steamboat in the 80's & 90's have some huge matches. I know some of you guys may hate to read this but the WWE is the true Big Time & until they go there just like AJ Styles did, they won't get their due. Styles is a huge star now thanks to the WWE. Much,much bigger than he was in TNA & New Japan.

depends what you watch really.  Styles was world renown long before he stepped foot in a WWE ring. I loved watching him wrestle back on TNA, probably one of the few people I could say that about at the time on that show. WWE is definitely the "show" that if you wanna make top $ that where you should aspire to be, but tons of people have gotten big through other ventures to get themselves on WWE's radar to begin with. 

It's kind of like the NFL and CFL, we all watch the CFL so the "stars" of our league are well known. If they want to make more money and become even more of a star, the NFL is where to go. But you from time to time get guys like Calvillo's and Damon Allens who carve themselves out crazy good careers in the smaller circuits but still get the recognition for all that they've done

[wbbfan]

Idk how hard core wrestling fans feel about this but i stumbled on it and was the greatest thing ive seen in a long while.

 

[SpeedFlex27]

5 hours ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

depends what you watch really.  Styles was world renown long before he stepped foot in a WWE ring. I loved watching him wrestle back on TNA, probably one of the few people I could say that about at the time on that show. WWE is definitely the "show" that if you wanna make top $ that where you should aspire to be, but tons of people have gotten big through other ventures to get themselves on WWE's radar to begin with. 

It's kind of like the NFL and CFL, we all watch the CFL so the "stars" of our league are well known. If they want to make more money and become even more of a star, the NFL is where to go. But you from time to time get guys like Calvillo's and Damon Allens who carve themselves out crazy good careers in the smaller circuits but still get the recognition for all that they've done

Football fans in the US don't know our CFL stars. Neither do fans in Europe & China like they know NFL stars. The NFL is the Big Time. The CFL isn't. Lots of wrestling fans don't watch TNA, ROH & New Japan. They only watch the WWE. I know there are rumours that Omega will be coming over to WWE at some time in the future. If he does, he'll probably be a huge star. At his age, it should be sooner rather than later. If it wasn't for some of you guys here, I'd never have heard of Kenny Omega.

Edited June 12, 2017 by SpeedFlex27

[Taynted_Fayth]

1 minute ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Football fans in the US don't know our CFL stars. Neither do fans in Europe & China like they know NFL stars. the NFL is the Big Time. The CFL isn't. Lots of wrestling fans don't watch TNA, ROH & New Japan. They only watch the WWE. I know there are rumours that Omega will be coming over to WWE at some time in the future. If he does, he'll probably be a huge star. At his age, it should be sooner rather than later. If it wasn't for some of you guys here, I'd never have heard of Kenny Omega.

I think you're missing the point. There are still a lot of people who watch those programs, know the stars of said promotions and appreciate them for what they do (just like we do with the CFL). Obviously WWE is the big dog in terms of $ and marketing but to say AJ Styles, or the like, weren't pretty big stars prior to coming to WWE is incorrect IMO. If anything his/their world renown status is what put them on the WWE's radar.  

It was pretty obvious how talented Styles was when he wrestled in TNA, but the WWE didn't sign him right away, he still went on to wrestle in NJPW.

I've always felt the WWE didn't/doesn't overly care for wrestlers they didn't develop or break out. I think they've slowly started to change that approach but for a long time guys coming from say WCW for example never got the same push as their own boys.  It will be interesting to see the kind of push Omega will get if he comes over eventually. They've done a pretty good job with Styles, Nakamura and Samoa Joe so far in guys they 100% did not develop

[bigg jay]

4 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Okada/Omega can't be the modern equivalent as not enough people have seen them wrestle. Whereas millions saw Flair & Steamboat in the 80's & 90's have some huge matches. 

I think you are perhaps underestimating NJPW and overestimating the NWA. It's not easy to compare them though just based on the fact that the ways people watch are so different now.

We can compare live attendance though and NJPW wins hands down.  Omega/Okada 1 had 26k in attendance compared to 8k for Flair/Steamboat (and only 130k in ppv buys) .  The rematches were 11.8k vs 5.3k also in favour of New Japan.

[SpeedFlex27]

I still say that in pro wrestling until you make it big in WWE you're not really big. There are millions of fans worldwide who don't watch the other promotions.

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, bigg jay said:

I think you are perhaps underestimating NJPW and overestimating the NWA. It's not easy to compare them though just based on the fact that the ways people watch are so different now.

We can compare live attendance though and NJPW wins hands down.  Omega/Okada 1 had 26k in attendance compared to 8k for Flair/Steamboat (and only 130k in ppv buys) .  The rematches were 11.8k vs 5.3k also in favour of New Japan.

Different eras.

[Brandon]

I'd say he's in the middle,  the whole world doesn't revolve around being popular in the USA.

For MMA equivalent.... KSW just completely demolished the UFC when they went head to head in Europe the other week.

Mariusz Pudjanowski (sp?) Is absolutely massive over there and has made a tonne of cash despite being a nobody in the USA. Same goes for Bob Sapp about ten years ago in Japan. Sapp made millions more then most American MMA or WWE guys. 

Sapp couldn't even walk in public without being mobbed. 

[bigg jay]

8 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Different eras.

Even back then NJPW was drawing bigger crowds.  Their 1st January Tokyo Dome show  (which is now called  Wrestle Kingdom) drew 50k in 1992.

[SpeedFlex27]

34 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

Even back then NJPW was drawing bigger crowds.  Their 1st January Tokyo Dome show  (which is now called  Wrestle Kingdom) drew 50k in 1992.

At the same time, wrestling fans in North America didn't care. Yet fans in Japan knew who the WWE wrestlers were. Like I said, if it wasn't for the hard core wrestling fans here, I'd not know who Kenny Omega & other ROH & NJPW were.

[The Unknown Poster]

9 hours ago, Goalie said:

Meh. It was a draw. It was an ok match with a couple cool spots but im sorry and i like kenny but... Their first match was better. By far. 

You're entitled to your opinion but general consensus is this one was better. More high spots on the first.  A lot of shades of the first match in this one which is how a program should be.  Logic tells us third match is when Kenny wins the world title although im not sure that's the plan. 

[The Unknown Poster]

7 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Okada/Omega can't be the modern equivalent as not enough people have seen them wrestle. Whereas millions saw Flair & Steamboat in the 80's & 90's have some huge matches. I know some of you guys may hate to read this but the WWE is the true Big Time & until they go there just like AJ Styles did, they won't get their due. Styles is a huge star now thanks to the WWE. Much,much bigger than he was in TNA & New Japan.

You're assuming your perspective as a WWE fan translates to everyone else. No doubt WWE is the biggest promotion on the world. And the average mark probably knows Ziggler over Okada and even Omega. 

But styles was a huge star and everyone knew who he was before wwe signed him.  His reaction at RR proves it. And the reason he got a sudden push was because house attendance jumped when he began working which is a metric that tells is even average fans knew him. 

Kenny Omega is a big big star. We can be fair and say he's the biggest star on the planet not on WWE. But he's bigger than a lot of guys in WWE. 

I've had people who do not watch wrestling and k ow nothing hear me talking and say oh I've heard of Kenny. 

Im biased. But I also know wrestling.  Sports illustrated doesn't do stories about him because he's a fringe or niche talent. His pro wrestling tees are always along the highest selling and he has multiple endorsement deals. 

He'll be bigger than styles if/when he finally goes to WWE.  

Hes the most talented wrestler in the world and I'm not sure it's close. He really is that good.  

And when he's main eventing wrestlemania we can all say we knew him when people on the internet said he wasn't anything special until he went there.

[The Unknown Poster]

18 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

At the same time, wrestling fans in North America didn't care. Yet fans in Japan knew who the WWE wrestlers were. Like I said, if it wasn't for the hard core wrestling fans here, I'd not know who Kenny Omega & other ROH & NJPW were.

This is not true actually.  A lot of fans in North America cared. 

Also my point about Flair/Steamboat is not to argue how many fans watched those matches.  Do you know how many fans watched those matches?   Because it wasn't Monday night war levels....

it was that for a generation those matches were used as training tapes for every young worker.  They were the standard for how to work during that era. 

And Omega/Okada has the potential to be the standard for this era. Probably already is but to be a real program of Flair/Steamboat level needs one more special match.  And I give Omega more credit because he's actually a better worker than Okada especially "American" style. 

But I say all this with no disrespect intended.  I'm sure there are people that think Shawshank Redemption sucks.  Opinions vary. 

[SpeedFlex27]

8 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

This is not true actually.  A lot of fans in North America cared. 

Also my point about Flair/Steamboat is not to argue how many fans watched those matches.  Do you know how many fans watched those matches?   Because it wasn't Monday night war levels....

it was that for a generation those matches were used as training tapes for every young worker.  They were the standard for how to work during that era. 

And Omega/Okada has the potential to be the standard for this era. Probably already is but to be a real program of Flair/Steamboat level needs one more special match.  And I give Omega more credit because he's actually a better worker than Okada especially "American" style. 

But I say all this with no disrespect intended.  I'm sure there are people that think Shawshank Redemption sucks.  Opinions vary. 

Yes, just an opinion. For discussion purposes only.

[Atomic]

10 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

 I'm sure there are people that think Shawshank Redemption sucks.

Impossible!

[The Unknown Poster]

I didnt watch all of RAW but watched the opening segment to see how badly they'd screw it up.  Miraculously, they didnt screw it up.  Great pull apart brawl by Brock & Joe and treated Joe the way he NEEDS to be treated going into this match - as someone who isnt afraid of Brock.

[Taynted_Fayth]

 

[Atomic]

3 hours ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

 

Yeah that was pretty incredible.  Probably the moment of the night.  I was hoping Sami would win but I did predict Baron Corbin before the match.  Thought Rusev might make an appearance as Shinsuke's replacement after Corbin attacked him but it didn't happen.

[SpeedFlex27]

Corbin, worst big man in WWE. Has the personality of wet paint drying.

[SpeedFlex27]

Big Cass turns on Enzo. They needed to break those 2 up. Enzo needs to wrestle in the Cruiserweight Division. He'd being a lot of personality to a boring division. Cass needs to strike out on his own away from Emore.

Speaking of MITB, what was the WWE thinking with the finish to the Women's MITB Ladder Match? The worst ending I ever saw. The reaction has been so negative on social media. So, don't be surprised if either Carmela is stripped of the MITB contract by Daniel Bryan or she loses it very fast over the next couple of weeks when she cashes in.

Edited June 20, 2017 by SpeedFlex27

[The Unknown Poster]

9 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Big Cass turns on Enzo. They needed to break those 2 up. Enzo needs to wrestle in the Cruiserweight Division. He'd being a lot of personality to a boring division. Cass needs to strike out on his own away from Emore.

Speaking of MITB, what was the WWE thinking with the finish to the Women's MITB Ladder Match? The worst ending I ever saw. The reaction has been so negative on social media. So, don't be surprised if either Carmela is stripped of the MITB contract by Daniel Bryan or she loses it very fast over the next couple of weeks when she cashes in.

I thought it was too soon to turn Cass and break them up. 

They respect the women...until they dont.  It generates heat but at the expense of respectability.  Although I like Carmella...