Wrestling

[bigg jay]

6 hours ago, ediger said:

For sure. Max Bell Centre would probably be a decent sized venue for them. I'm having a hard time thinking of any other places in the city in 1,000-1,500 capacity range that aren't theatres. I guess the Convention Centre but I imagine that place doesn't come cheap.

I know a couple mma promoters have kicked around the idea of doing a show at the Transcona Country Club.  Their convention room has a 2000 person capacity I believe.

[The Unknown Poster]

Convention Centre.  IGAC.  The Arena can be set up for a smaller crowd. 

ROH with Omega would do better than 1500 in my opinion. 

[Goalie]

Just now, The Unknown Poster said:

Convention Centre.  IGAC.  The Arena can be set up for a smaller crowd. 

ROH with Omega would do better than 1500 in my opinion. 

Maybe 3000 max but in reality... Not a lot of people know who he is. 

[Atomic]

You gotta be a pretty hardcore wrestling fan to know who Kenny Omega is.  Or to watch ROH, for that matter.

[The Unknown Poster]

1 minute ago, Goalie said:

Maybe 3000 max but in reality... Not a lot of people know who he is. 

ROH set the record for ticket sales for a show in September in the US when they announced Omega appearing, no opponent announced.  Kenny being on the show set their record.  He's about as well known as it gets for someone not in WWE.  And is well known beyond wrestling as well. 

[Brandon]

I'd be wary on expecting a lot of people...  I seem to remember going to the U of M to watch bigger stars like Lex Luger ,  Scott Steiner ,  Buff Bagwell all right after the WCW sale and they struggled to even hit 66% capacity.  

 

[Goalie]

33 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

ROH set the record for ticket sales for a show in September in the US when they announced Omega appearing, no opponent announced.  Kenny being on the show set their record.  He's about as well known as it gets for someone not in WWE.  And is well known beyond wrestling as well. 

I get hes your friend.. I like him also but the bottom line is there just aren't that many hardcore fans in Winnipeg who knows who he is. 3000 max and thats probably pushing it... Honestly how many people have heard of ROH or New Japan in Winnipeg... Not many. 

Hes not that well known by the masses... Just by the hardcore fans. 

You replace Omega with a former WWE star and that former WWE star outdraws him here

Edited August 17, 2017 by Goalie

[The Unknown Poster]

7 minutes ago, Brandon said:

I'd be wary on expecting a lot of people...  I seem to remember going to the U of M to watch bigger stars like Lex Luger ,  Scott Steiner ,  Buff Bagwell all right after the WCW sale and they struggled to even hit 66% capacity.  

 

That was promoted by a local indie.

[The Unknown Poster]

1 minute ago, Goalie said:

I get hes your friend.. I like him also but the bottom line is there just aren't that many hardcore fans in Winnipeg who knows who he is. 

Its true he is a friend, but you're simply wrong about how well known he is.  Its not just a matter of knowing.  Because on one hand you could say, when we announce Omega on our shows, we dont we draw 3000 people.  But the fact our draws might increase by 200% with virtually no advertising simply because he's on a show tells the tale.

ROH, which has been around 15 years and featured a lot of big talent sets a ticket sale record with only Kenny's name and nothing else tells the tale. 

ROH would not just be able to sell tickets with Kenny's name and draw a ton.  They'd have to actively promote.  Winnipeg is a tough market.  They do go into Minnesota and I've wondered why they dont do Winnipeg.  Winnipeg is a really good wrestling market but tough at the same time.  The crowd will pay for premium content.

Like Brandon said, you can draw 3500 for WCW or a few years later draw a fraction of that for an unknown indie with all the same WCW talent. 

Winnipeg was considered by TNA for a house show (which is sort of wild when you think about it).  But if I could put 500 people into an adults only bar to see Aj Styles, ROH could get over 3000 for a show featuring Kenny Omega which would likely also have the Bucks too.

Im not saying 10,000.  New Japan could have got over 5000 probably, in LA.  I'd say ROH could get 3000 is priced right.  If they went with a 3000 seat venue, I'd feel comfortable with that and certainly aim for a sell out.   Especially in Winnipeg where availability of ticket can impact sales.  Better to get 3000 and turn 1000 people away then to have a 5000 seater with 1000 empty seats.

[The Unknown Poster]

14 minutes ago, Brandon said:

I'd be wary on expecting a lot of people...  I seem to remember going to the U of M to watch bigger stars like Lex Luger ,  Scott Steiner ,  Buff Bagwell all right after the WCW sale and they struggled to even hit 66% capacity.  

 

IGAC holds about 3400 for wrestling so 66% is being generous.  More like 30%.  The highest drawing indy wrestling event in Winnipeg (of the modern era anyway) is 1750, set in 2002.

[Goalie]

If we are truly being honest here... Kenny isnt even the most known in the Bullet Club.. If we are going by Twitter Followers... Young Bucks have more. I like Kenny.. Hes a great wrestler but...lets not pretend hes some proven huge draw. Hes not. Hes really not that known to ppl who dont follow New Japan... I know of him.. Would i go to a ROH show if he was on the card? I cant say for sure... Who else would be on that card... Id certainly not go just to see Omega tho. If Jay Lethal... Cody... Bucks were on.. Yeah thats a good card.. Dalton Castle? Yeah.. Good card id go but if it was a bunch of ham n Eggers and Omega? Nope. 

Edited August 17, 2017 by Goalie

[Goalie]

Flair...

Condition

remains unchanged as the WWE Hall of Famer remains in "critical" condition following surgery earlier this week.

-- It was initially being reported that Flair underwent colon surgery, but the exact nature of the surgery was that it was to his bowels (which I suppose are his intestines) due to a massive blockage caused by multiple other health issues, including to his heart.

-- The situation then turned serious when during the course of all his problems, Flair's kidneys shut down and he had to be put on dialysis with the hope that his kidneys will begin to work again on their own.

-- While the outlook is not as dire as it was just a couple of days ago, Flair's situation is still considered critical as he is also dealing with an infection that has either not been completely diagnosed yet or that has not been remedied. There are also reports that Flair will have to undergo at least one more surgery in the coming weeks.

Contributing sources: Wrestling Observer Newsletter & PW Insider

[The Unknown Poster]

6 minutes ago, Goalie said:

If we are truly being honest here... Kenny isnt even the most known in the Bullet Club.. If we are going by Twitter Followers... Young Bucks have more. I like Kenny.. Hes a great wrestler but...lets not pretend hes some proven huge draw. Hes not. Hes really not that known to ppl who dont follow New Japan... I know of him.. Would i go to a ROH show if he was on the card? I cant say for sure... Who else would be on that card... Id certainly not go just to see Omega tho. 

Thats fair.  You're not the target audience then.  Kenny is by far the biggest star in the Bullet Club.    And we can agree to disagree.  But its sort of a subject Im familiar with.  You're just not correct.  If the Bucks were bigger stars (and they are big stars), they'd headline all the shows.  They dont.  Kenny headlines more shows he appears on.  He's had multiple news stories in mainstream because he's of interest to wrestling fans by and large and cross over fans.

Kenny is the biggest "American" in New Japan.  New Japan is the second largest promotion in the world.  Omega headlined the Tokyo Dome, the second largest drawing show of the year in the world.  If Omega walked into WWE tomorrow, he gets a bigger reaction than Styles did.

I dont think ROH would out draw WWE in Winnipeg but they'd draw very well.  We're talking about Kenny's home town in Canada.  We need only look at New Japan in LA and ROH in the US with Kenny to see his popularity.

[Goalie]

Your problem is you are saying all those people went to see Kenny... But ignoring that he is only 1 guy on that card. New Japan sold as much as ECW did in LA... There arent that big of a deal in the big picture. 

[bigg jay]

I don't know how people can say that Omega is only known to hardcores when you have guys like Austin, Cena, JR, Foley, etc pumping his tires on their various social media platforms over the last year.  People might not have seen a whole lot of his work but they  know who he is.

[The Unknown Poster]

6 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Your problem is you are saying all those people went to see Kenny... But ignoring that he is only 1 guy on that card. New Japan sold as much as ECW did in LA... There arent that big of a deal in the big picture. 

No, I didnt say that.  ECW?  From 15 years ago? lol 

Ring of Honor themselves are running a show in a 5000 seat venue in Chicago and announced a record surge in sales when Omega was announced.  No opponent.  Just that he'd be there.  Omega = surge in ticket sales.  That doesnt mean everyone bought a ticket to see Kenny.  It means most people did. 

Events like wrestling, boxing, UFC are traditionally marketed around their top match/performer.  Its not like most people say "hmmm, Omega?  I dont know...wait, Cheesburger is on the show??  SOLD!".

If YOU arent a Kenny fan, thats cool.  If YOU wouldnt buy to see Kenny, thats cool.  But you're trying to frame an argument on your own opinion that is not representative of 1) most fans 2) those fans.

[The Unknown Poster]

7 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

I don't know how people can say that Omega is only known to hardcores when you have guys like Austin, Cena, JR, Foley, etc pumping his tires on their various social media platforms over the last year.  People might not have seen a whole lot of his work but they  know who he is.

Exactly.  HUGE star in wrestling.  Sometimes Winnipeggers are insecure.  So Kenny being from Winnipeg means he's not a big star.  He's a huge star.  ESPN and Rolling Stone dont do stories on a guy because a couple hundred hardcore marks like him. 

I've known several guys that worked in New Japan, CMLL, WWE etc and Im not here falsely pumping their tires.  It has nothing to do with being friends with Kenny.  Opinions are opinions.  Facts are facts.  If we wanted to discuss Mike Angels, who was pursued strongly by a smaller promotion in Japan and appeared in a viral video with Kenny, I'd gladly tell you Angels is talented enough to be a regular in Japan but not well known.  Jon Cutler wrestled on RAW and in WWE developmental (and for me) but not well known at all.

[Atomic]

I'll be honest, I follow WWE wrestling pretty closely and I only know who Omega is because of TUP mentioning him.  Maybe I would have heard of him otherwise when the big matches with Okada were going down.  I'm not sure.  I've just never been interested in the indies.

So I guess the real question is how many wrestling fans there are in Winnipeg who are interested in more than WWE.  Because if you are a fan of ROH or NJPW then you certainly know Kenny Omega.

[The Unknown Poster]

1 minute ago, Atomic said:

I'll be honest, I follow WWE wrestling pretty closely and I only know who Omega is because of TUP mentioning him.  Maybe I would have heard of him otherwise when the big matches with Okada were going down.  I'm not sure.  I've just never been interested in the indies.

So I guess the real question is how many wrestling fans there are in Winnipeg who are interested in more than WWE.  Because if you are a fan of ROH or NJPW then you certainly know Kenny Omega.

Thats a good question.   WCW did poorly here, though that was near the end.  TNA had Winnipeg on their short list but mostly based on how well we drew with TNA talent.  And we'd always do well.  Other promotions have done well with indie names also.  I think there are a lot of wrestling fans in Winnipeg.

I think ROH would do well.  And as far as Kenny goes, you could say he was an indie darling a few years ago.  By two years ago and especially over the last year, he's crossed over.  The interest from WWE, him being featured in New Japan, especially as they expand into the US and ROH shows us he's well known to more than just hardcore fans.

But this is wrestling.  Its not like we're talking about 25,000 people.  TNA just did drew 300 to a house show in the US.  ROH is over the moon to be selling out 5000 in Chicago.  Winnipeg has drawn 6500 for WWE and been happy.  If an indie gets 150-200 in Winnipeg, they are happy.  Its all relative.

[The Unknown Poster]

While appearing on the "From the Top Rope" podcast alongside her sister, Brie Bella gave one of the strongest indications yet that Daniel Bryan will eventually end up wrestling again -- whether it's in a WWE ring or somewhere else.

Brie said about Bryan possibly coming back: "I told Bryan, ‘You do have a daughter, so always remember that. But if the doctors finally give you the green light,’ I say, ‘Go. Like this is your dream and passion. You have one life to live and I will never hold you back -- because I love to wrestle, and I would hate if someone told me you can’t do it."

"And if WWE doesn’t allow it, then I said, ‘Go somewhere else. It’s all on you,'" She added. "Obviously he would love to be able to get back in that WWE ring, but I know for a fact my husband is going to find his way back to the ring. Like, he honestly is.”

[SPuDS]

1 hour ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Its true he is a friend, but you're simply wrong about how well known he is.  Its not just a matter of knowing.  Because on one hand you could say, when we announce Omega on our shows, we dont we draw 3000 people.  But the fact our draws might increase by 200% with virtually no advertising simply because he's on a show tells the tale.

ROH, which has been around 15 years and featured a lot of big talent sets a ticket sale record with only Kenny's name and nothing else tells the tale. 

ROH would not just be able to sell tickets with Kenny's name and draw a ton.  They'd have to actively promote.  Winnipeg is a tough market.  They do go into Minnesota and I've wondered why they dont do Winnipeg.  Winnipeg is a really good wrestling market but tough at the same time.  The crowd will pay for premium content.

Like Brandon said, you can draw 3500 for WCW or a few years later draw a fraction of that for an unknown indie with all the same WCW talent. 

Winnipeg was considered by TNA for a house show (which is sort of wild when you think about it).  But if I could put 500 people into an adults only bar to see Aj Styles, ROH could get over 3000 for a show featuring Kenny Omega which would likely also have the Bucks too.

Im not saying 10,000.  New Japan could have got over 5000 probably, in LA.  I'd say ROH could get 3000 is priced right.  If they went with a 3000 seat venue, I'd feel comfortable with that and certainly aim for a sell out.   Especially in Winnipeg where availability of ticket can impact sales.  Better to get 3000 and turn 1000 people away then to have a 5000 seater with 1000 empty seats.

I'm a "average" wrestling fan.. sorta follow it, sorta don't care lol and I had no clue who he was beyond his Winnipeg connection..

 

[The Unknown Poster]

I dont think "average" fans would be those that sort of follow it and sort of dont care.  The majority of wrestling fans, even if they dont really follow ROH or New Japan have heard of Kenny Omega.  If you havent, you wouldnt be an average fans.  Which is not to say thats a bad thing.  I sort of follow UFC but I there are likely many fighters I barely know of.  Wrestling is also the kind of thing where there can be fans strictly of WWE or strictly of New Japan etc.  Omega isnt a WWE wrestler so if someone didnt read a single thing about wrestling that wasnt WWE produced, they'd likely not know Kenny.  And Kenny's name has appeared in WWE in the recent past.

[Goalie]

18 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

I dont think "average" fans would be those that sort of follow it and sort of dont care.  The majority of wrestling fans, even if they dont really follow ROH or New Japan have heard of Kenny Omega.  If you havent, you wouldnt be an average fans.  Which is not to say thats a bad thing.  I sort of follow UFC but I there are likely many fighters I barely know of.  Wrestling is also the kind of thing where there can be fans strictly of WWE or strictly of New Japan etc.  Omega isnt a WWE wrestler so if someone didnt read a single thing about wrestling that wasnt WWE produced, they'd likely not know Kenny.  And Kenny's name has appeared in WWE in the recent past.

I honestly think you being friends with him clouds your judgement a wee bit. Yeah hes known but to how many average wrestling fans. Cuz i dont think the average fan follows or are even aware of ROH or New Japan. 

The average fan hasn't heard of ROH or New Japan or PWG or Chikara. 

Edited August 17, 2017 by Goalie

[The Unknown Poster]

41 minutes ago, Goalie said:

I honestly think you being friends with him clouds your judgement a wee bit. Yeah hes known but to how many average wrestling fans. Cuz i dont think the average fan follows or are even aware of ROH or New Japan. 

The average fan hasn't heard of ROH or New Japan or PWG or Chikara. 

More Bullet Club t shirts seen on fans attending WWE shows lately.  My relationship doesnt cloud the facts.    Average wrestling fans certainly have heard of ROH and New Japan.  They might know the stars but they've heard of it.  The majority of WWE fans are "wrestling" fans.  Especially as ratings and attendance have eroded over the last few years.  When that happens, you begin reducing down to the more hardcore fans. 

[ediger]

I think maybe the casual viewer isn't always aware of those groups but a good number of wrestling fans are familiar with them at least in name.  Kenny Omega would definitely be a big draw. The people that go out to see TUP's shows (which are fantastic, I highly recommend) because Kenny is on the bill are the hardcore fans and even those shows with limited advertising draw what? 200-300? 200 might not sound like much but I can tell you from my experience playing with my band around town, if you can get 200 Winnipeggers out to see local entertainment, you've done well. Tell people the same show is a touring group and then the whole "well nothing good comes out of Winnipeg" crowd starts to come out.