Wrestling

[Taynted_Fayth]

which is why I said if they can be competitive in terms of what they pay their wrestlers,  you could get a few WWE stars jump ship once their contracts were up.  It's basically what WCW did to over take WWE for a spell and for a short while what TNA did to capture a lot of attention. 

I don't think any promotion will ever topple the WWE, but I do believe there could one day be one like WCW that offered an alternative that really forced WWE to step up it's game. Once they crushed their opponent, they went back to some bland ****.  For WWE's sake they should hope to get some competition, it makes them a lot better and less complacent

[Brandon]

Wrestling isn't popular enough for a start up to risk blowing money...  MMA isn't even worth spending a tonne of money on starting a promotion  as it's popularity is declining. 

What they need to do is mix a bit of scripted wrestling with a bit of real MMA fighting and add a dash of prizes to be won and we can get the next best thing........

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Edited September 1, 2017 by Brandon

[Atomic]

What's that?  The Running Man?

[Brandon]

41 minutes ago, Atomic said:

What's that?  The Running Man?

[Goalie]

2 hours ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

which is why I said if they can be competitive in terms of what they pay their wrestlers,  you could get a few WWE stars jump ship once their contracts were up.  It's basically what WCW did to over take WWE for a spell and for a short while what TNA did to capture a lot of attention. 

I don't think any promotion will ever topple the WWE, but I do believe there could one day be one like WCW that offered an alternative that really forced WWE to step up it's game. Once they crushed their opponent, they went back to some bland ****.  For WWE's sake they should hope to get some competition, it makes them a lot better and less complacent

Not in North America... TNA at its peak had about 300 000 viewers on TV. They were never competition or even an alternative. Id argue NXT is actually the 2nd largest NA wresting company.. But its under the WWE banner. 

[Taynted_Fayth]

2 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Not in North America... TNA at its peak had about 300 000 viewers on TV. They were never competition or even an alternative. Id argue NXT is actually the 2nd largest NA wresting company.. But its under the WWE banner. 

TNA had so much wrong with it, one of the biggest things was, and I'll coin this RF overkilled wording, "scrap heaping".  They were getting guys that were on the outs with WWE. guys at the end of their career or B-listers.   At least when WCW hit their peak they brought in guys like Nash, Hall, Hart, Hogan, and the macho man to name a few, and even tho some of these guys were getting up there in age,  they carried a lot of fan fare.

Just looking over some of the names WCW/NWO had (aside from the above mentioned) in 96-97 was Curt Hennig, Brian "Crush" Adams, Rick Rude, Scott Steiner, The Big Show (then known as the Giant), Sting, Ted DiBiase,  Xpac (Syxx).

If you couldn't do anything with a roster like that 20 years ago you should have no business running a wrestling company.   

Now the point I was making is let's say a company like ROH was able offer more money and  attract some stars from the current WWE to add to their roster. Guys who more or less have some fans but don't seem to get much of a push,  Zayn, Ziggler, Luke Gallows/Karl Anderson, Fandango, Luke Harper maybe a few from NXT... spring in some other bigger names like CM Punk and maybe some disgruntled big names in TNA/Impact and I think with the right people running the show you could make it something worth taking an interest in if your a fan of the sport

[The Unknown Poster]

35 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Not in North America... TNA at its peak had about 300 000 viewers on TV. They were never competition or even an alternative. Id argue NXT is actually the 2nd largest NA wresting company.. But its under the WWE banner. 

TNA did a lot better.  They were drawing over a million viewers for sometime.  Even more.  NXT yes but they lose money.  ROH makes money. 

[Brandon]

WCW really took off when each week they poached a big name from WWF...  it was crazy how huge the roster was and how many superstars they had.    WWE were the ones scrap heaping at that point in time. 

[Taynted_Fayth]

16 minutes ago, Brandon said:

WCW really took off when each week they poached a big name from WWF...  it was crazy how huge the roster was and how many superstars they had.    WWE were the ones scrap heaping at that point in time. 

Yep it's no wonder why WCW was beating WWF(E) for a time there,  but all the props in the world for guys like Austin, The Rock, HHH, HBK and Mick Foley for doing what they needed to do and reclaim the top of the mountain.  That was truly a great time to be a wrestling fan

[The Unknown Poster]

WCW had strong ratings for decades for Saturday Night showcasing Crockett's NWA (Flair etc).  That was the flagship show.

When Nitro debuted, it was almost by accident.  Turner demanded to know from Bischoff what it would take to beat Vince and he replied "Prime time TV".  So Turner gave him Nitro.  They already had Hogan.  And Hogan was drawing huge PPV buys for them.

Lex Luger was the first poach as he appeared on the Nitro debut show after working for WWE all weekend without a contract. 

WCW didnt so much poach Hall & Nash as WWE let them go.  Hall was in the doghouse for drugs anyway.  Nash told Vince he'd stay if he matched the WCW offer and Vince said no.  At the time, there were very few guaranteed contracts and Vince felt if he matched WCW, it would change the business too much.  So he let them go. 

But Nitro competed with RAW from day one.    First head to head rating was 2.5 to 2.4 for RAW.  In the heat of the "War" they did 5.2 to 4.7.  So the increase was not one hurting the other, but both drawing an audience.  WWE once drew an 8.1 unopposed.  Amazing. 

Bischoff was smart to see those guys as still being marketable.  His big mistake was not building new stars and letting them all go to WWE.  Plus the culture of WCW where guys would refuse to do jobs, hold out due to dubious injury etc.

[SpeedFlex27]

8 hours ago, Atomic said:

The Rock is the greatest talent to ever grace a WWE ring.  Between him, Stone Cold, and DX, the entertainment value was through the roof every single week.

Now we get a bunch of scrawny or fat guys who can't cut a promo but they're "great workers".  And ratings are in the toilet.

No way Rock's the greatest. Great on the mic & he developed his shtick with the phrases & tweaking his right eyebrow but the greatest?? Nope. Ric Flair (in his prime), Stone Cold, Randy Savage  & HBK... they could do it all & were better in ring performers than Rock.  John Cena will be up there as well ahead of the Rock as he's been doing it longer. Lots of fans boo Cena but they'll miss him once he's gone.  Rock's Top 10-15 which is till damned great if you ask me & I know you did.

[Taynted_Fayth]

13 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

No way Rock's the greatest. Great on the mic & he developed his shtick with the phrases & tweaking his right eyebrow but the greatest?? Nope. Ric Flair (in his prime), Stone Cold, Randy Savage  & HBK... they could do it all & were better in ring performers than Rock.  John Cena will be up there as well ahead of the Rock as he's been doing it longer. Lots of fans boo Cena but they'll miss him once he's gone.  Rock's Top 10-15 which is till damned great if you ask me & I know you did.

I remember having Stone Cold vs The Rock debates back in the day.  I've read on a few places The Rock was voted usually 2nd all time on the mic (only behind Flair). I would say their in ring moves/ability were roughly on par, but the edge goes to the rock based on his mic skills.  Character wise I think Stone Cold had the cooler one and I think he sold more merch but I can't even count how many times I caught people repeating Rock catch phrases on the daily.  "Know your Role and Shut Your Mouth" ... calling someone a jabronie or a roody poo candy ass, asking someone if they know what your cooking... interrupting someone telling them it doesn't matter what they think...etc I heard those everywhere back in the day.  Of course "Cuz stone cold says so" was repeated alot but never as much and as many different quotes as the rock.

[SpeedFlex27]

3 minutes ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

I remember having Stone Cold vs The Rock debates back in the day.  I've read on a few places The Rock was voted usually 2nd all time on the mic (only behind Flair). I would say their in ring moves/ability were roughly on par, but the edge goes to the rock based on his mic skills.  Character wise I think Stone Cold had the cooler one and I think he sold more merch but I can't even count how many times I caught people repeating Rock catch phrases on the daily.  "Know your Role and Shut Your Mouth" ... calling someone a jabronie or a roody poo candy ass, asking someone if they know what your cooking... interrupting someone telling them it doesn't matter what they think...etc I heard those everywhere back in the day.  Of course "Cuz stone cold says so" was repeated alot but never as much and as many different quotes as the rock.

That's just the one side of The Rock. Stone Cold was a much better wrestler. Austin 3:16 sold a ton of merchandise & may have been more influential in the Attitude Era for changing pro wrestling than the Rock's slogans like, "Do ya smell what the Rock ... is ... Cooking?!!" I loved The Rock but I put Stone Cold ahead. 

[Taynted_Fayth]

Just now, SpeedFlex27 said:

That's just the one side of The Rock. Stone Cold was a much better wrestler. Austin 3:16 sold a ton of merchandise & may have been more influential in the Attitude Era for changing pro wrestling than the Rock's slogans like, "Do ya smell what the Rock ... is ... Cooking?!!" I loved The Rock but I put Stone Cold ahead. 

well other then rocky miavia he was basically the same character for a while, even when he was in the nation of domination.  I never watched Steve Austin in WCW or ECW when he was part of the hollywood blondes with brian pillman so i can't really comment, but he was pretty restricted by those knee braces. a lot of his in ring stuff was throwing haymakers, stompin mudholes, suplexes and of course his stunner.  wasn't much different then what the rock was doing over all.

FUN FACT: after showing that Kama the Supreme Fighting machine debut against the (Then) jobber Matt Hardy... Steve Austin's debut match with the WWF was also against the same jobber, Matt Hardy

[Brandon]

1 hour ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

I remember having Stone Cold vs The Rock debates back in the day.  I've read on a few places The Rock was voted usually 2nd all time on the mic (only behind Flair). I would say their in ring moves/ability were roughly on par, but the edge goes to the rock based on his mic skills.  Character wise I think Stone Cold had the cooler one and I think he sold more merch but I can't even count how many times I caught people repeating Rock catch phrases on the daily.  "Know your Role and Shut Your Mouth" ... calling someone a jabronie or a roody poo candy ass, asking someone if they know what your cooking... interrupting someone telling them it doesn't matter what they think...etc I heard those everywhere back in the day.  Of course "Cuz stone cold says so" was repeated alot but never as much and as many different quotes as the rock.

The Rock was a way better wrestler at that point in time....not even close.    I think the draw with Austin was his not giving a Fack about what anyone thinks and the over the top awesome moments like Bedpanning McMahon or spraying him with  Beer. 

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, Brandon said:

The Rock was a way better wrestler at that point in time....not even close.    I think the draw with Austin was his not giving a Fack about what anyone thinks and the over the top awesome moments like Bedpanning McMahon or spraying him with  Beer. 

The night he beat the crap out of Booker T in the Supermarket. Hillarious. 

[The Unknown Poster]

Austin was the biggest money draw. 

Rock was the greatest charisma and biggest cross over star. 

Flair was greatest all around performer. 

Hogan was biggest mainstream star. 

[The Unknown Poster]

Jbl has quit wwe to focus on his charitable endeavours. 

[Atomic]

2 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Jbl has quit wwe to focus on his charitable endeavours. 

Forced out maybe?

[The Unknown Poster]

 

[SpeedFlex27]

Looking frail. Lost a lot of weight. Not surprising after what he went through. Tough old bird. Get well, Ric!

[Jpan85]

Thought he looks good,for being near death

[Jpan85]

On 2017-09-01 at 6:15 PM, Taynted_Fayth said:

I remember having Stone Cold vs The Rock debates back in the day.  I've read on a few places The Rock was voted usually 2nd all time on the mic (only behind Flair). I would say their in ring moves/ability were roughly on par, but the edge goes to the rock based on his mic skills.  Character wise I think Stone Cold had the cooler one and I think he sold more merch but I can't even count how many times I caught people repeating Rock catch phrases on the daily.  "Know your Role and Shut Your Mouth" ... calling someone a jabronie or a roody poo candy ass, asking someone if they know what your cooking... interrupting someone telling them it doesn't matter what they think...etc I heard those everywhere back in the day.  Of course "Cuz stone cold says so" was repeated alot but never as much and as many different quotes as the rock.

What

[Taynted_Fayth]

5 hours ago, Jpan85 said:

What

lol that was the worst thing to happen to wrestling for a long time

[SpeedFlex27]

Still goes on.