Batman v Superman Spoiler Thread

[Logan007]

Just starting the thread.  I'm not going to post anything in it just yet as I don't want anyone to see anything spoilery just yet.  But once I've digested everything better, I'll start posting.

This is your only warning, FYI.  From this post on out it's spoilerific talk.

So just to start off.  I thought it was better then Man of Steel.  It could have been cut down by about half an hour.  The editing wasn't done that well.  The end kind of annoyed me...well...a certain part of the end.  I thought it was too soon for this, but they did it anyway.  I still think they should have introduced the characters first and then brought on the Justice League.  It feels like they're trying to rush everything to have Justice League compete with Infinity War.  It's kind of stupid on DC's part.  But whatever.

Anyway, tell us what you thought.  As I said, from this point on out is spoilers, so be warned.

[The Unknown Poster]

I want to say it's terrible. I might even say that in time. But there was enough good things that tantalizingly tease us for the future. 

The big thing is, there is no joy in this movie. Everything is dark, stoic, angry, dramatic, heavy. Every single thing. Normally I prefer dark but this was just a poorly made film that didn't take the audience on an emotional ride. There was only one emotion. 

It looked beautiful.  Affleck was good as batman. However the key thing about batman is that batman is who he is and bruce Wayne is his costume and yet we didn't see Bruce Wayne wearing his costume so to speak. They hint at this bring a more brutal Batman, which is fine, due to loss and weariness. But didn't show is or tell us. If you are someone who doesn't pay attention to online news you'd very easily miss the Robin thing. 

The idea of a world trying to figure out what Superman stands for is good. But they didn't have time to flesh it out. It was both rushed and boring in a way because things happened without really meaning anything.  The senator was very good though. 

Jesse Eisenberg is awful. He's the most obnoxious alleged actor, and I say alleged because I'm not sure we've ever seen him act. I hated his Lex. It didn't make me root against him. It made me hate the performance.  It was silly and over the top and goofy and hurt the film. 

Gal Gadot might have been the stand out. She was beautiful and femine but with a subtle power and strength. She nailed the character. Again, if you're not sure about the idea of a Justice Leage, then her being there sort of is confusing. But it builds to her reveal as Wonder Woman which, had the film not been such a downer, could have elicited cheers from the crowd. 

I'll come back with more later. 

[Logan007]

I gave it a 6/10.  I enjoyed it, at least, a bit more then Man of Steel.  The one thing they do right in this movie is Batman.  They run through his backstory nice and quick, and then get into why he's angry, what his motivation is.  And Affleck does a good job.  Unfortunately, they don't do the same for Superman or Lex.  Lex is just some goofy nutcase who's inherently evil for some reason that they never really focus on.  They kind of hint that he's Lex Jr. and that his dad is his adoptive dad or something.  But they never really explain why he's bad.  What his motivation is for why he's bad?  Which is fine, but you're left wanting.  And he's not Lex.  And he gets his stupid head shaved at the end.  So he's not bald...he's just got his head shaved.  Uggh...I just...uggh.  I hate Eisenberg as an actor so this doesn't help his case for me, but he just acts the same always with that stupid squeaky voice of his.  I'd have preferred a slightly older more menacing Lex like the Justice League cartoon.  I still think Bryan Cranston would have been the perfect Lex Luthor.

Jeremy Irons was a great Alfred.  I would have liked to see more of him.

I found Henry Cavill's performance fine, if a little dry.  He just seemed...boring.  There was no emotion in his portrayal.

Gal was good, but she didn't have a lot of speaking parts so I can't really judge her in this movie, although her action scenes were great.

Doomsday...really?  DOOMSDAY!!?!?  We're only on the second movie and you haul in DOOMSDAY!?!?!  I mean, come on man.  You have millions of bad guys you could choose from and this is what you choose to do?  On top of it, you do the Death of Superman?  IT'S THE SECOND DAMN MOVIE SNYDER!?!?  Let's learn to love Superman first before you go and kill him off.  Let's see him in a few movies first.  Don't just throw him in like that.  The battle with Doomsday is supposed to be a GREAT BATTLE between him and Superman, and they relegated it to a quick 10 minutes.  And then at the end...OOOOH, he's alive...floating stuff before he takes off.  That plot line alone pissed me off.  They took one of the greatest story lines and just threw it away into a quick 10 minutes.  This felt very much like X-Men 3 all over again where you have this great Phoenix story line that you could probably have drawn out over a couple of movies, first as her being a good Phoenix, then the next movie she moves to the Dark Phoenix.  But nope...they ruined that story line, just like Snyder just ruined the Death of Superman one.

The other part that really annoyed me was that he's going off of Frank Miller's Dark Knight story, which is basically a graphic novel.  It's not even part of the real Batman comics.  So basically he threw away 50 years of Batman comics for some stupid graphic novel about an older Batman that kills.  Batman doesn't kill.  That's one of the things he abides by.  After the golden age (where he did kill) they changed his character to be a non killer.  That was one thing Batman always stuck to.  Oh you'll see things in graphic novels or one off comics that aren't really "Batman canon" but his main story line in the comics is, he doesn't kill.  Superman has killed in his comics, but Batman doesn't.  This Batman was something else, and that part I didn't like.  But I can overlook that if he turns a new leaf in the upcoming movies.  Cause he was fairly pissed off at Superman for killing most of the employees in his building.

And about the dream sequences, which were great.  The general audience is not going to get that they're teasing Darkseid.  They needed to be more in your face like Marvel was with Thanos.  And apparently Lex knows something about Darkseid because he made mention of certain things that are associated with Darkseid, including the ding ding ding at the end which is something a boom tube makes when it opens a portal.

This movie could have been cut down to 2 hours.  Although I think there were pieces missing which will be in the R rated cut.  I have a feeling they're going to show the Joker killing Robin or something.

Anyway, even though it sounds like I hated it, I didn't.  I did like it, just not that much.  I think they're making these characters a little too dark without barely any humor at all.  You need to have some like, Winter Soldier type of humor in it just so you don't feel like the world is a terrible place once you're done watching the movie.  And bring your characters around, make them more like their comic book counterpart.

That's it for now.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Logan007

[The Unknown Poster]

I don't think they showed Batman's motivation very well.  At least not to explain his hatred of superman. 

And he immediately goes from wanting to kill Superman to being his friend. That part was awful. 

[Logan007]

1 hour ago, The Unknown Poster said:

I don't think they showed Batman's motivation very well.  At least not to explain his hatred of superman. 

And he immediately goes from wanting to kill Superman to being his friend. That part was awful. 

Well, there mom's had the same name. That makes them instant BFF's, duh.

Well the building crushing his employees and that VP that he was obviously close to. I think the kid losing her mom pushed him over. Kind of brought him back to losing his parents. I think he's still pissed about, I'm guessing, Joker killing one of his Robin sidekicks as well and was just taking it out on Supe's. 

[The Unknown Poster]

Yeah I think they needed to show us more. 

[The Unknown Poster]

The more i reflect on this film the more angry I am at Snyder.   JLA begins filming next month. I wish there was a way for WB to replace him before then. 

 

[Logan007]

Or at least get someone to co-direct with him that knows how to tell a story.

[The Unknown Poster]

What was that odd Flash segment about when he was warning Bruce? Again if you're not up on the mythology of this whole thing you'd be confused as hell. 

The scene where Wonder Woman views the other meta humans would have been a great post credit scene. It had no relevance to the rest of the film other then to connect bruce and Prince which could have better happened a different way. 

Snyder has a bad habit of this...did it on MoS too  when he wants to get from plot point A to plot point B but doesn't know how he waves a magic wand  the creation of doomsday....batman and Superman becoming buddies  things happen to move the plot rather then the plot moving things  

it was really arduous  

 

Edited March 26, 2016 by The Unknown Poster

[Logan007]

I'm pretty sure it was the Flash time traveling and giving Batman a message.  He said:

“Listen to me now,” the man yells. “It’s Lois! Lois Lane! She’s the key!” Then, seconds later, amid screams, “You’re right about him! You’ve always been right about him! Fear him!”

No idea what that means, but he was dressed in the same dessert gear that Batman was dressed in in his nightmare sequence.  So I'm guessing it's regarding Darkseid.  Not sure who "he" is that they need to fear.  Maybe it's Superman.  Maybe the dream sequence where Superman is this evil guy is something that's going to come true.  Maybe red kryptonite turns him bad and makes him Darkseid's partner.  I don't know.  The whole thing is cool but at the same time feels weird and haphazard. 

[iso_55]

How was the volume of the music? I read one reviewer who said that the music was painfully loud. Especially at the end. I don't want to go to a movie & wear earplugs.

[The Unknown Poster]

1 hour ago, Logan007 said:

I'm pretty sure it was the Flash time traveling and giving Batman a message.  He said:

“Listen to me now,” the man yells. “It’s Lois! Lois Lane! She’s the key!” Then, seconds later, amid screams, “You’re right about him! You’ve always been right about him! Fear him!”

No idea what that means, but he was dressed in the same dessert gear that Batman was dressed in in his nightmare sequence.  So I'm guessing it's regarding Darkseid.  Not sure who "he" is that they need to fear.  Maybe it's Superman.  Maybe the dream sequence where Superman is this evil guy is something that's going to come true.  Maybe red kryptonite turns him bad and makes him Darkseid's partner.  I don't know.  The whole thing is cool but at the same time feels weird and haphazard. 

The thing is they seem to be assuming fans know all this. This isn't like Avengers where several had their own films and there was a sensical narrative running throughout. 

On one hand they show bruce having nightmares. For example right off the hop when young bruce levitates admits swarming bats, my buddy turns to me and says oh give me a break. But bruce says its a dream. So is a dream or a flashback?  If it's a flashback that is idiotic.  And comes too close to comparing batman in a Christ-like image to Superman who routinely is compared to Jesus. The scene was silly

but if it's just a dream, so be it. Bruce refers to other nightmares he has. Ofcourse we see the future wasteland dream. Then Bruce wakes up. Then flash appears. Then he wakes up again. So was it a dream or reality?  If reality then how is Bruce seeing the future?  

I took the Flash scene as being "real" since its in keeping with his powers and I think it was a red herring. It wasn't meant to be Bruce's image of the future though we were supposed to think that. 

Because in that moment we assume Flash was talking about Superman. I assume he meant Lex. Bruce thought Lex was the white Portuguese. Then realized it was a ship. Flash was telling him he was right. Lois being the key meaning she figured it out 

but again I could be completely wrong. And it's not that I want to be told everything. But there is a difference bryween mystery and making something not make sense on purpose to trick the viewer. The scene was never mentioned again. No connection was made that it was flash. Bruce never seems bothered or interested. Another scene that might have been better at the end credits. 

Soeaking of the end, Bruce tells Diana he will find the other Meta's. Why? Because we need them. Why? I have a feeling. Huh??  

Its like Snyder was so desperate to craft an Avengers-level film without the talent to do so. And without the patience to start from the beginning like marvel did. 

Batman is the iron man of DC. He's the guy linking the characters or so it seems. They should have taken a step back and told that story.  It's just so messy and thrown together. Like scenes in a blender. 

Snyder is like a poor karaoke singer in a dive bar surrounded by drunks who looks in the mirror and thinks he's frank Sinatra.  He's not as good as he thinks he is and that is hurting the whole DC thing. WB needs to step in. They have Affleck. Maybe he's the answer. Maybe he's not. But Snyder has had two kicks at the can and Missed both. 

[Logan007]

The whole thing is just WB's trying to play catchup like you said.  They're trying to get Darkseid out before Marvel releases Thanos so that people don't go "hey, isn't that the same bad guy?".  It's just a really sad attempt.  And the greater sadness comes from all the loser just lapping it up.  It's like the people who all run out to see Transformers.  People pay money cause they wanna see SPLOSIONS!!!

For me it was so tiring to watch this movie.  It's was such a slow startup just to finally get to the final battles.

 

I think when he says Lois is the key, he means that she's the only one that can bring Superman back from the dark side, or whatever is going to happen to him.  I don't know, I don't even like to think about the whole thing.

[Logan007]

22 hours ago, iso_55 said:

How was the volume of the music? I read one reviewer who said that the music was painfully loud. Especially at the end. I don't want to go to a movie & wear earplugs.

Hmm...I think it was the same as any other movie.  I didn't really notice.  Maybe it was a bit louder?  I do remember thinking my hearing was a little off when I walked out of it.

[The Unknown Poster]

Im currently half deaf in one year due to an inner ear issue so it was annoying for me. So it did sound a bit loud. Though I've been to film where I'm straining to hear so louder is better. 

It may be that Wonder Woman's theme is very heavy. I enjoyed. Though it was a bit cheesy that they had  Doomsday do something three straight times and everytime as the smoke cleared it was doing the slow zoom/reveal of Wonder Woman with her theme pounding.  Trying too hard for that "saves the boys" moment....three times. 

Film made $450m world wide. So no accounting for taste lol and Snyder will be the vision behind JLA films unfortunately. But he's not doing batman or Wonder Woman so I'm looking forward to those. 

[Logan007]

I'm wondering if it has legs to carry it or if it drops big time next weekend.

[bearpants]

Here's a review from someone who is not much of a comic/super hero fan... I've seen a lot of the Marvel movies and I saw the dark knight trilogy... mostly b/c they're so big in pop culture and they are entertaining for non-comic book fans like myself... anyways, here's my thoughts on it...

- I thought Ben Affleck was good as batman... he's generally a pretty good actor so no complaints there...

- I had no problem with Henry Cavill... I've always thought of superman a stoic, less dramatic character anyways... maybe I'm wrong about that

- Really liked Gal Gado as wonder woman... The only thing I can remember her being in is the fast and furious franchise... and those movies aren't exactly known for quality acting... I thought she was good for this character...

- Did not like Jesse Eisenberg... but I had no idea if he was portraying the character properly so it was hard to judge... For all I know he may have been perfectly spot on...

- The movie felt really slow in the beginning (I literally almost fell a sleep a couple time)... but it redeemed itself with some good action in the end...

- a few people have mentioned in this thread there are a lot of subtle references that casual fans won't get... I am one of those people.... I understand the references to aquaman and the flash, though I don't really know anything about these characters... a couple of you mentioned there was a reference to Robin... I must have completely missed that...

- I felt the "rift" between Superman and Batman was forced... then suddenly they're best friends cuz their mom's have the same name?...

Overall I'd give it around a 5 out of 10... kept me entertained but I'm not exactly on the edge of my seat waiting for a sequel... some back story on the other characters would be beneficial for us casual fans...

[The Unknown Poster]

Great review bearpants. 

One thing I discussed with friends this weekend was how Superman was portrayed. I don't hate it.  And he will always be compared unfavourably to Reeve. But I think what was missing was the "hope". He kept talking about it but never showed it 

and yes we can say this is early Superman but Snyder chose to fast forward the narrative to get to JLA. Without that juxtaposition between the infinite hope of Superman and the darkness of batman the film lost something. 

Even if we accept its a different superman who never really wears a costume then we have to complain about Bruce never showing his "costume" (bruce). Needed that emotional dichotomy. 

The Robin reference was when batman was in the cave staring at the bat suit. As he walks out he glances up at a second suit. It was the Robin suit and had the words "hahaha jokes on you Batman" scrawled on it.  Doesn't tell us anything but the assumption is part of what drove batman darker was the murder of Robin. 

[bearpants]

29 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

The Robin reference was when batman was in the cave staring at the bat suit. As he walks out he glances up at a second suit. It was the Robin suit and had the words "hahaha jokes on you Batman" scrawled on it.  Doesn't tell us anything but the assumption is part of what drove batman darker was the murder of Robin. 

yes, I do remember that... but it obviously went completely over my head... I thought it was a different batman suit, it really made no sense to me so I basically just ignored it...

[Logan007]

20 hours ago, bearpants said:

yes, I do remember that... but it obviously went completely over my head... I thought it was a different batman suit, it really made no sense to me so I basically just ignored it...

Well, the fact that the Robin suit had no color to it probably didn't help the general audience either.  It looked like it was bronzed or something.

But good review.  Those are basically the same issues I had with the movie as well.

Edited March 29, 2016 by Logan007

[Taynted_Fayth]

ok i can finally look at this thread lol heres my thoughts on it;

the good:

It was better then MoS

Ben affleck as good, Cavill I'm buying more into as superman, less of a drama queen as he was in MoS, but still lets his emotions rule the day;

I liked the Kryptonite smoke that he'd inhale as the equalizer vs a kryptonite infused suit. much easier to believe (limited supply) and good way to back and forth the fight.

The bad;

waaay to long of a movie, by the time wonder woman was fighting with them i was checked out.

jesse eisenberg... is not lex, at all.

Why did batman have a premonition to darkseid and lois lane being the key? hes a human with no special powers.  if they took the same little bit of time and switched it for Wonder woman, itd have made more sense for her, or one of her amazonian ppl to foresee this apocalypse and urge her to get involved now and recruit for the coming darkness

little disappointed in the nothing really but a blur that was the flash, and then a waste of space showing Aquaman was. of the "metahumans" shown,  Cyborg was probably the only one worth watching

Superman retrieves the spear from the water and goes limp like a dead fish,  yet he can fly with it a short time later. inconsistent.

 

Other:

I didn't realize Bruce's mom was named Martha too, i got a little giggle at the beginning when his dads last breath is "Martha" i thought for sure they'd become super friends hugely in part to both having a mom named Martha

 

[The Unknown Poster]

The idea of the "Martha" but sounds a lot better on paper.  As an aside to humanize Superman in batman's eyes, I get it.  But to have that be the thing that completely changes Batman's opinion?  Absolutely absurd.

The foreseeing the future was ridiculous too.  Its one thing for Bruce to have nightmares about what he thinks the world could look like if Superman were bad, but for that to be a premonition is moronic. Unless someone is planting the image.  And then if so, why and who?  And why is none of this explained?  Snyder isnt as clever as he thinks he is, thats the problem.  There was a straighter line to accomplish things and he took the scenic route.

Lex was his biggest failing though.  Every scene he's in falls apart.  He has ZERO gravitas on screen with Batman or Superman.

@Taynted_Fayth Good point about Wonder Woman being a better choice for understanding the visions of the future.   It would have been better if she was the uniting force between Batman and Superman.  Someone who is sort of human but also "Super", someone who could speak to Batman in human terms.  Batman *should* be the recruiter but at Wonder Woman's behest.  If she went to him at the end and said he must find the others and bring them together, it works better.  Bruce says why me...and she explains because he's the most human (double meaning), ie. the one who can speak to the heart of each man in a way she and Superman can't. 

I dont know...just very disappointed.  And when I hear WB come out and say the revenue proves that critics dont get it, its just head shaking time.  I find it hard to believe a single WB exec could watch that film and think it was great,  Transformers showed us that making money and being good can often be two different things.

[Taynted_Fayth]

well the locust type enemies in batman's vision and the Omega symbol are clearly darkseid,  as this is what his minions look like

and he can corrupt people from afar with his darkness, but they usually get the omega symbol on their forehead.  If you watch the finale of smallville and the few episodes leading up to it,  they did a better job with that regard.

I was honestly hoping at the end when Lex is incarcerated, when they told him to put his head against the wall and hands behind his back and the lights started flickering, that he was going to turn around to either darkseid himself or at least turn with the omega symbol on his head and blackened eyes, and say in an ominous voice that the darkness has arrived.  not his little crazy spiel he went off on

Edited March 29, 2016 by Taynted_Fayth

[Taynted_Fayth]

any guess who that was who spoke to batman when he kind of awoke in his dream that says, he was right all along about superman, before finally waking up completely

 

** i thought it might have been the flash and thats apparently what other people are thinking too when i looked it up, like this

Quote

Indeed, Batman’s other dream/hallucination sees a battle armor-clad Ezra Miller as The Flash stepping through a portal to deliver an urgent message to Bruce Wayne at his terminal in the Batcave. The dialogue in this sequence is a bit muddled, but he says Bruce was “right about him,” meaning Superman, and that Lois Lane is the key, and her survival is crucial to…something. Flash also acknowledges that he’s “too early,” seemingly referring to the fact that he’s come across at the wrong point in time to deliver this message.

 

Edited March 29, 2016 by Taynted_Fayth

[The Unknown Poster]

I assumed it was Flash.  Another lousy film making decision.  Im sure it was so clear to Snyder but not to the rest of us.  My buddy, who is a fan but not checking things online like me, turned to me and asked WTF was going on and I said I think its the Flash.  He still didnt understand...

I actually assumed it was a red herring.  We're to believe the message is about Superman but I thought it was about Lex.  But I guess the bigger picture makes sense that it's Superman.  Although, if Superman turns bad because he's possessed by Darkseid, then Superman isnt really "right" about him because it's not really Superman doing it.

The lousy casting of Lex made the whole Darkseid stuff even worse because its like if a six year old child was possessed.  Thats basically the dramatic gravitas of Jesse Eisenberg.  Plus all the hinting was so confusing if you dont know.  Im sure Snyder feels its clever "they dont know" but confusing your audience is not the same as mystifying them.