Game Of Thrones (Spoilers)

[The Unknown Poster]

What did you all think of GoT's season debut?

[bigg jay]

I enjoyed it.  I'll use the spoiler function for specifics in case people haven't seen it yet, but I liked the fact that it answered questions left from last season (not all of them though!) and opened the door for new ones.

Spoiler

Highlights for me were:

1) Brianne & Sansa finally hooking up (with Theon & Podricks help).  Could cause lots of trouble for the Bolton's if they can get to some kind of safety.

2) The end scene was a great display of the power the Red Woman has (could have done without the 400 year old naked woman before bed though!).

Lowlights:

1) The Jamie/Cercei scene didn't do much for me.  Not sure why, just didn't.  I think I expected more emotion/anger, especially from Cercei.

2) Doran Martells death.  A huge diversion from the books that I'm not a fan of.  There's a whole angle that is being completely skipped/redone that I'm looking forward to in the books.  I also think that they wasted Dr. Bashir's talents in such a small role!  

 

 

[The Unknown Poster]

14 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

I enjoyed it.  I'll use the spoiler function for specifics in case people haven't seen it yet, but I liked the fact that it answered questions left from last season (not all of them though!) and opened the door for new ones.

  Hide contents

Highlights for me were:

1) Brianne & Sansa finally hooking up (with Theon & Podricks help).  Could cause lots of trouble for the Bolton's if they can get to some kind of safety.

2) The end scene was a great display of the power the Red Woman has (could have done without the 400 year old naked woman before bed though!).

Lowlights:

1) The Jamie/Cercei scene didn't do much for me.  Not sure why, just didn't.  I think I expected more emotion/anger, especially from Cercei.

2) Doran Martells death.  A huge diversion from the books that I'm not a fan of.  There's a whole angle that is being completely skipped/redone that I'm looking forward to in the books.  I also think that they wasted Dr. Bashir's talents in such a small role!  

 

 

Spoiler

Agreed on most counts.  I really like jamie and really dislike Cercei.  They've done a good job of making her sympathetic but its hard to root for them...well hard to root for her.  But I want to see Jamie kick all kinds of ass.  Aside from shoving that kid out of a window in Season 1, he seems pretty honorable. 

How do you see it ending?  Assuming they come to a conclusion eventually with someone taking the throne and peace reigning...who is the king/queen?  I always assumed Jon Snow.

 

[bigg jay]

2 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

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Agreed on most counts.  I really like jamie and really dislike Cercei.  They've done a good job of making her sympathetic but its hard to root for them...well hard to root for her.  But I want to see Jamie kick all kinds of ass.  Aside from shoving that kid out of a window in Season 1, he seems pretty honorable. 

How do you see it ending?  Assuming they come to a conclusion eventually with someone taking the throne and peace reigning...who is the king/queen?  I always assumed Jon Snow.

 

Spoiler

They've done Jamie almost exactly as they have in the books and I agree, he's definitely turned into someone you want to root for (the Bran thing aside).  He's even more likeable at this point in the books (IMO).

As for the end, I don't see Jon living.  Martin has said he anticipates a bittersweet ending so I picture Jon being the key to victory over the white walkers but losing his life in the process.  Daenerys takes her spot on the Iron Throne with her dragons at her side kicking off a new Targaryen dynasty.

 

[The Unknown Poster]

1 minute ago, bigg jay said:

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They've done Jamie almost exactly as they have in the books and I agree, he's definitely turned into someone you want to root for (the Bran thing aside).  He's even more likeable at this point in the books (IMO).

As for the end, I don't see Jon living.  Martin has said he anticipates a bittersweet ending so I picture Jon being the key to victory over the white walkers but losing his life in the process.  Daenerys takes her spot on the Iron Throne with her dragons at her side kicking off a new Targaryen dynasty.

 

Spoiler

If Daenerys ends up on the throne (and she's really the least interesting character, at least on the show, wouldnt that mean the end of the Lannisters...and the Starks (by way of Sansa)?  Unless Jamie also kills Daenerys.

 

[bigg jay]

1 minute ago, The Unknown Poster said:

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If Daenerys ends up on the throne (and she's really the least interesting character, at least on the show, wouldnt that mean the end of the Lannisters...and the Starks (by way of Sansa)?  Unless Jamie also kills Daenerys.

 

Spoiler

Tyrion could be key to both the survival of  the Lannisters (and Sansa since she is/was his wife) and Daenerys return to the throne.

 

[Taynted_Fayth]

Re: GoT

Spoiler

really could have done without the naked old lady,  however I got to wondering if she was the same witch Cersei met as a young girl they showed in season 5, and referenced again in this latest episode.  it could cause some rift in the lannisters wanting to side with any party she is a part of. 

Jon snow not coming back works better imo to help the crew seeking help from the wildings as he serves as a martyr.  would be kind of silly if that guy came back with an army only to find jon snow alive and well,  it's like oops false alarm.

i'm more anticipating what the youngest stark who was pushed from the window in season 1 has in store.  the previews looks like hes directly interacting with that white walker king, and where the F has he been since he escaped winterfell.

Im a little bored of the assassin in training starks story line, and have been since pretty much king roberts bastard kid died when they were headed for castle black several seasons ago

 

Edited April 25, 2016 by Taynted_Fayth

[Brandon Blue&Gold]

On 4/25/2016 at 9:41 AM, bigg jay said:

I enjoyed it.  I'll use the spoiler function for specifics in case people haven't seen it yet, but I liked the fact that it answered questions left from last season (not all of them though!) and opened the door for new ones.

  Hide contents

Highlights for me were:

1) Brianne & Sansa finally hooking up (with Theon & Podricks help).  Could cause lots of trouble for the Bolton's if they can get to some kind of safety.

2) The end scene was a great display of the power the Red Woman has (could have done without the 400 year old naked woman before bed though!).

Lowlights:

1) The Jamie/Cercei scene didn't do much for me.  Not sure why, just didn't.  I think I expected more emotion/anger, especially from Cercei.

2) Doran Martells death.  A huge diversion from the books that I'm not a fan of.  There's a whole angle that is being completely skipped/redone that I'm looking forward to in the books.  I also think that they wasted Dr. Bashir's talents in such a small role!  

 

Spoiler

This actually bugged me a lot.  I really liked the direction GRRM was taking with the Martells in the books and thought it was going somewhere good.  To just end it like they did in the show annoyed me.  A waste of Siddig El Fadil for sure (DS9 and Kingdom of Heaven represent!) and sorta pissed away a big chunk of season 5 spent in Dorne.  But I am curious to see what the Sand Snakes and Ellaria Sand have in store this season.  My opinion can be swayed.

 

 

Edited April 28, 2016 by Brandon Blue&Gold

[bigg jay]

2 hours ago, Brandon Blue&Gold said:

 

Spoiler

Agreed.  Both the books & the show have now unleashed the Sand Snakes, just in a much different way.  One bright side to the change is that their actions are much quicker and direct rather than the long game that Doran was playing in the book.  In hindsight, it probably works better for a show with only 10 episodes per season so I get why they did it this way.  It'll be interesting to see if they end up in the same place when both the books and show are done.

 

[Taynted_Fayth]

yeah with GoT on now same time,  i may catch the 10 or 11pm airring of FTWD,  I was interested watching this latest episode for the tie in with the little airplane mini thing theyd been showing all along,  but the show itself is getting tiresome.  they need to get somewhere soon and stay there,  the whole boat thing has already lost it's novelty

[Taynted_Fayth]

re|: GoT

Spoiler

guess big jay was right on the red witch call with jon snow

 

[The Unknown Poster]

Just now, Taynted_Fayth said:

re|: GoT

  Hide contents

guess big jay was right on the red witch call with jon snow

 

I, for one, am glad.

[bigg jay]

13 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

I, for one, am glad.

Spoiler

Watching the episode, I still wasn't sure which way they were going to to go since it's GOT afterall and they love f**king with your emotions.  My TV would probably have a hole in it if they had gone the other way!   I will admit that I was surprised they did it in episode 2 though, I thought for sure they'd try to drag it out a bit longer.

I thought it was a pretty good episode overall.  I especially liked Roose getting whacked by Ramsay, even if I would have preferred them both to get that from Jon Snow who will be coming to claim Winterfell.

 

[Taynted_Fayth]

one of the issues im having with GoT is the constant leader changes story hiccups among the factions. it seems like an all out war is constantly in delay mode because every time theres a build up towards 1 person leading the charge/way they get off'd and things gotta start over to build up that new person/direction

like right now we have white walkers, nights watch/wildlings, boltons/houses of the north,  kings landing/sparrows, iron islands, lannisters/chicks from dawn, daeneys vs the sons of the harpys  then theres the dothrakis...  and whatever the hell is going on with the young stark girl and the house of black and white/many faces, bran stark and his visions,  sansa and brienne...too much going on.  

I suppose the white walkers will somehow unite everyone to fight a common enemy but its so damn slow and taking for ever everytime they start over. at least 1/3 of the story lines going are unnecessary

[The Unknown Poster]

I agree Taynted.  I dislike the constant changes.  And it sort of switches characters from good to bad or bad to good.  If the end result is a "King" being a new character, I will be unhappy.  I assume there will be some sort of deal made between various factions to bring peace to the land.

[bigg jay]

They've already started slowly bringing things together and you'll see it more over the course of this season because there are only 2 more after this one.

Spoiler

The North is coming together the fastest.  Sansa's storyline merged with Brianne's and will come together with Jon Snow's now that he's back and presumably done with the Night's Watch.  His oath (which he wouldn't break for Stannis) was to live & die at his post and he did that so he can go become Lord Jon Stark of Winterfell now.

 

[The Unknown Poster]

20 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

They've already started slowly bringing things together and you'll see it more over the course of this season because there are only 2 more after this one.

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The North is coming together the fastest.  Sansa's storyline merged with Brianne's and will come together with Jon Snow's now that he's back and presumably done with the Night's Watch.  His oath (which he wouldn't break for Stannis) was to live & die at his post and he did that so he can go become Lord Jon Stark of Winterfell now.

 

That's a good point and its what I'd like to see.  if he ends up somehow on the throne, I'd be happy.

[Taynted_Fayth]

I dont mind Daenerys ending up on the throne,  it would kind of be her birth right and shes been getting a crash course in learning the ropes in meereen and with the dothraki's.  if im not mistaken too,  people have spoken well of her father the mad king,  before he went mad, so there could be some unity with her coming to the iron throne.  seems like since Jamie lannister killed the mad king,  theres been a domino effect of wrongful people usurping or taking over the throne, so it might be what the realm needs,  a targaryen back on it

[bigg jay]

Spoiler

You're assuming she would be the heir.  She wasn't next in line to rule, her older brother Rhaegar was and he may have been Jon's father if the speculation is right.  That would make Jon the next in line, not Daenerys. 

 

Edited May 2, 2016 by bigg jay

[Taynted_Fayth]

8 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

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You're assuming she would be the heir.  She wasn't next in line to rule, her older brother Rhaegar was and he may have been Jon's father if the speculation is right.  That would make Jon the next in line, not Daenerys. 

 

Spoiler

didnt know this guy even existed, but seems like a cluster**** having established jon as ned's bastard child. unless its revealed that jon was somehow saved beyond Viserys and Daenerys, but they said only 2 targaryens were spared.  It would be hard to reveal Jon as a targaryen with pretty much everyone in the know now dead. even Dinklage and the spider assume daenarys is the one to go serve

 

Edited May 2, 2016 by Taynted_Fayth

[The Unknown Poster]

29 minutes ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

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didnt know this guy even existed, but seems like a cluster**** having established jon as ned's bastard child. unless its revealed that jon was somehow saved beyond Viserys and Daenerys, but they said only 2 targaryens were spared.  It would be hard to reveal Jon as a targaryen with pretty much everyone in the know now dead. even Dinklage and the spider assume daenarys is the one to go serve

 

Spoiler

 

From some online source:

Though Jon is known as "Ned Stark's bastard," the theory is that he's only Ned Stark's nephew, and his real mother is Lyanna Stark, Ned's sister, and his father is Rhaegar Targaryen, the son of the Mad King Aerys. We have never met either of these characters on the show, as they died years before the show's events commence, but they have been referred to on the show — at least, they have recently. Rhaegar, if you need a refresher, is the oldest brother of Daenerys, and he is killed during Robert Baratheon's rebellion. What we know of Lyanna is that she had been kidnapped by Rhaegar when she was engaged to Robert, and when Ned finds her, she's dying in bed, but it's never said how she dies.

Earlier this season, in "Sons of the Harpy," Littlefinger and Sansa have a conversation in the crypt below Winterfell about Sansa's deceased aunt Lyanna. Littlefinger recounts the event that predates Game of Thrones (by oh, about how old Jon Snow is): the tourney at Harrenhal. Prince Rhaegar gave roses to Lyanna, not his own wife, Elia, insulting plenty of people, including Lyanna's betrothed, Robert Baratheon. "How many tens of thousands had to die because Rhaegar chose your aunt?" asks Littlefinger, and Sansa replies, "Yes, he chose her, and then he kidnapped her and raped her." This is what everyone in Westeros has believed for years, yet they don't discuss whether a child came from that union, rape or not (or whether she may have died in childbirth). It's an echo of the conversation Ned and Robert Baratheon have in the series premiere, and bringing the focus back to these two characters is a big hint that they're actually Jon's parents.

But what if Rhaegar hadn't raped Lyanna and they had been in love? The seed of that possibility comes up when, in the same episode, Ser Barristan recounts a sweet story to Daenerys about her brother going out into the city to sing to the people. "Rhaegar never liked killing; he loved singing," Barristan says, essentially making the claim that Rhaegar was actually a good and gallant (if adulterous) man. This is Daenerys and Barristan's last conversation, so his anecdote has to mean something. I think it's supposed to establish Rhaegar as an honorable person, not a villain, as only the father of someone like Jon could be.

Ned Stark died for his honor in season one, and it's always a mystery how such a good man, who seems so devoted to his wife and family, could cheat — and in his first year of marriage no less. We're reminded of that fact this season when Stannis and his wife, Selyse, are discussing Jon, and she refers to him as the son of "some tavern ****." Stannis retorts, "Perhaps. That wasn't Ned Stark's way." No. It was not.

Before Maester Aemon's heartbreaking death, the old man talks about his heir, Daenerys (Aemon reveals he's a Targaryen in season one), in the episode "Kill the Boy." He remarks, "a Targaryen alone in the world is a terrible thing," . . . and then the camera goes to Jon Snow. Hmmm.

After the epic battle at Hardhome, Jon Snow brings back a huge population of wildlings to the Wall, and Alliser Thorne observes, "You have a good heart, Jon Snow. It'll get us all killed." What seems like a throwaway line may have more impact, though: Lyanna Stark was said to be a wonderful person, and Rhaegar (see the anecdote about Ser Barristan's account of him) may have also been. Their actions together incited Robert Baratheon's rebellion, displacing the line of Targaryen kings for the first time in years, i.e., getting them all killed.

The book series that Game of Thrones is based on is not called the Game of Thrones series — that's simply the name of book one. The actual series is called A Song of Ice and Fire, a title that becomes unsubtle about this being the story of Jon Snow and Daenerys being the rightful rulers of the Seven Kingdoms. Still don't see it? Ice = Jon Snow, and fire = Daenerys. If Jon Snow really is a Targaryen and has claim to the throne, and so does Dany, they don't have to war — they could marry. Yes, it would be weird for Daenerys to wed her nephew, but the Targaryens used to marry brother to sister, so this is . . . actually not so weird.

 

Edited May 2, 2016 by The Unknown Poster

[bigg jay]

18 minutes ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

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didnt know this guy even existed, but seems like a cluster**** having established jon as ned's bastard child. unless its revealed that jon was somehow saved beyond Viserys and Daenerys, but they said only 2 targaryens were spared.  It would be hard to reveal Jon as a targaryen with pretty much everyone in the know now dead. even Dinklage and the spider assume daenarys is the one to go serve

 

Spoiler

You clearly aren't paying attention then.  They went over Rhaegar last season when Danny & Barristan had a significant chat about him.  He basically started Robert's Rebellion by kidnapping (or running away with - depending on who you ask) Lyanna Stark.  

At the end of the rebellion, Ned tracked his sister down where she was being protected by multiple kings guard.  Short version of the story is that Ned & Howland Reed (Meera & Jojen's dad) were the only survivors.  Lyanna, on her death bed swore Ned to secrecy... about what nobody knows except that Ned then came home with a bastard that he refused to talk about.  There is one person left alive who knows what happened and he hasn't been introduced yet but his kids have & they are with Bran (at least Meera is).

If Jon is Rhaegar's heir, it would explain why the kingsguard was there and not protecting Rhaegar (who gets killed by Robert).  It would also explain why Ned never reveals who Jon's mother is (protecting her honor, respecting her wishes and the fact that the new king has a real hard-on for killing Targaryens).

 

[Taynted_Fayth]

2 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

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Though Jon is known as "Ned Stark's bastard," the theory is that he's only Ned Stark's nephew, and his real mother is Lyanna Stark, Ned's sister, and his father is Rhaegar Targaryen, the son of the Mad King Aerys. We have never met either of these characters on the show, as they died years before the show's events commence, but they have been referred to on the show — at least, they have recently. Rhaegar, if you need a refresher, is the oldest brother of Daenerys, and he is killed during Robert Baratheon's rebellion. What we know of Lyanna is that she had been kidnapped by Rhaegar when she was engaged to Robert, and when Ned finds her, she's dying in bed, but it's never said how she dies.

 

Spoiler

if that does indeed be the case, then i dont see Jon taking over winterfell,  that'll probably fall on Sansa, Arya, Bran or the missing Rickon. Not surte how bastard children are referenced to their mothers but seems like even as "Snow's" they follow their dads

 

[bigg jay]

1 minute ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

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if that does indeed be the case, then i dont see Jon taking over winterfell,  that'll probably fall on Sansa, Arya, Bran or the missing Rickon. Not surte how bastard children are referenced to their mothers but seems like even as "Snow's" they follow their dads

 

Spoiler

Sansa should get Winterfell, unless Jon (like Ramsay) gets legitimized by royal decree.

 

[Rich]

Found it odd to have a page of posts all hidden behind reveal tags.  I felt like a kid needing a decoder ring every time I came into this topic with all of the hidden content.

Split this out into its own thread so people can decide if they want to click in it and read.  No need to keep posting behind hidden contents.

I can add 'Spoiler" in the thread if anyone thinks it is still necessary.