Surprise Surprise

[Goalie]

Yet another mass shooting in the states. This time. Orlando at a gay night club. 50 dead. 53 injured. Shooter apparently of Muslim descent. Uh oh. But... that's not why he shot those people. He shot them because he saw 2 men kissing. Media trying to make this about radical Islam when it's obvious it's not. When will America learn? 

[Jimmy Pop]

This guy is a must follow on Twitter right now. Dozens of politicians offering "thoughts and prayers" being shamed for taking NRA blood money. This us how change happens... Change the system...

 

[FrostyWinnipeg]

1 hour ago, Goalie said:

Yet another mass shooting in the states. This time. Orlando at a gay night club. 50 dead. 53 injured. Shooter apparently of Muslim descent. Uh oh. But... that's not why he shot those people. He shot them because he saw 2 men kissing. Media trying to make this about radical Islam when it's obvious it's not. When will America learn? 

Well they saying he made 911 call saying he was ISIS. Whether he is or is not that'll be the connection,

As for the NRA...this is not the time to talk about banning AR15's

[The Unknown Poster]

Yeah I'd suspect him calling 911 and claiming allegiance to ISIS is why its being investigated as terrorism.  Not sure the defence of radical Islam matters in this discussion.

The key thing is to defend his right to have an assault rifle.  Clearly a weapon needed for hunting...or protection...or something.  Oh yeah, its easier to cut through 50 people with an assault rifle then a hand gun.  

Assuming its not an organized attach by an organized terrorist group and its just some lone nut who used ISIS as an excuse, its still relevant.  The fact it was a gay club is obviously relevant too.  And the fact he was armed with weapons no civilian needs or should have access to is very relevant.

Another sad day in America.  When will it end?  Not in our lifetimes.

[The Unknown Poster]

2 hours ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

Well they saying he made 911 call saying he was ISIS. Whether he is or is not that'll be the connection,

As for the NRA...this is not the time to talk about banning AR15's

If this isn't the time to talk about it, I don't know when is.  Very horrific tragedy.

[Goalie]

The Media and Congressmen will tell you what they want you to believe, not the actual truth. The truth is it was an assault rifle, one that doesn't require reloading every 10 seconds either, same assault rifle used in the other mass killings, this is a problem and that igor guy calling those congressmen on it is awesome, ofcourse he's not getting any responses back but... it's awesome none the less. Cuz reality is, these guys are full of crap. I'm happy as heck to be living in a country where some nut case can't go to the local walmart and purchase an assault rifle, and while that may not be true in the states either, It's pretty much easy enough to get one. This guy, can't call him a terrorist, he's just some random guy who hated gays, if a guy like that who has been interviewed twice in recent years by the FBI can get 2 guns like 4 days ago, then that's a problem. 

 

Making it easy for these nutcases to get guns is the problem, It's not islam, it's not isis, it's gun laws that allow anybody, ANYBODY, doesn't matter if you are white black red green purple orange or blue, ANYBODY... doesn't matter if you are insane apparently either, doesn't matter if you are interviewed by the FBI twice in the recent past, YOU CAN go to the store and get a bloody assault rifle... 

 

So needed, I'm pretty sure assault rifles don't fall under the category of needing it for protection or hunting, I mean really.... Americans are so dumb, the people are smartening up it seems but the people running that place don't give 2 craps. Money is more important than lives. That's the bottom line and until these crooked bastard congressmen stop taking NRA money, cuz all these guys have pretty much, then nothing changes. NOTHING. Just another day in the USA really.. something like 167 mass shootings in the states this year already... that's a problem. A HUGE PROBLEM. and it will continue until they change their gun laws which they never will do because... MONEY and MERICA. 

[FrostyWinnipeg]

58 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

If this isn't the time to talk about it, I don't know when is.  Very horrific tragedy.

My jest was that the NRA always says that.

 

[Fatty Liver]

If they can attribute a mass shooting to "terrorism" it encourages the NRA to further promote automatic weapons as reasonable protection against an ever growing terrorist threat.  Expect a nice spike in sales as all the nuts rush out of the piney-woods to re-stock their arsenals.  A president with balls as big as FDR needs to grab America by the throat and shake it out of it's stupor.

 

 

[The Unknown Poster]

Ofcourse ISIS is a problem. US reliance and additiction to advanced weaponry doesn't negate ISIS. Whether it's a factor in this shooting or not is really a moot point. There will always exist crazy losers bent on murder regardless of motivation.

Wrapping oneself in the flag and saying darn it every American has a right to the most lethal killing machines they can get is idiocy.   

[Zontar]

ISIS claimed responsibility for attack and had warned in the past weeks attacks were coming.

It was a terrorist attack by a Muslim fanatic. Don't let anti-gun bias cloud the truth of what happened.

Terrorists dont and will never obey stricter gun laws - they're stubborn that way.

[Jacquie]

2 hours ago, Zontar said:

ISIS claimed responsibility for attack and had warned in the past weeks attacks were coming.

It was a terrorist attack by a Muslim fanatic. Don't let anti-gun bias cloud the truth of what happened.

Terrorists dont and will never obey stricter gun laws - they're stubborn that way.

And yet this shooter did. According to the ATF, he made two legal gun purchases within a week before the attack. That doesn't sound like there was much planning involved.  As well, terrorist organizations have been known to take credit for attacks when they actually had nothing to do with them. The shooter mentioned ISIS in his 911 call but there has been no evidence so far showing that he was ever a member of a terrorist organization. 

In Santa Barbara, police arrested a man from Indiana after receiving a report about a prowler. When they found his car he had what they described as an arsenal of weapons including three assault rifles, high capacity magazines, ammunition, and a 5 gallon bucket with chemicals to make a bomb. He had come to LA to go to the West Hollywood pride parade. Luckily he was caught before he could use those weapons.

When a Muslim American goes on a shooting spree it is immediately reported to be a terrorist attack connected to radical Islam. When a white Christian male goes on a shooting spree (which happens with a much, much greater frequency in the US) the word "terrorism" almost never is mentioned. What the Orlando shooter did was absolutely despicable and, frankly, I'm glad he's dead. I just hope innocent Muslims won't have to pay for what this guy did.

 

Edited June 13, 2016 by Jacquie

[Goalie]

Yup. If I learned anything today it's that it's only terrorism if a non white person commits the crime. 

Was Columbine terrorism? Cuz those crazy rich ass white kids started this all pretty much. Sandy Hook terrorism?  Nope just some white kid right. 

 

Ridiculous.  

 

I'll just add this. .

 

Gay people getting killed? Irrelevant 

Muslim shooter?  Irrelevant 

The fact that this guy bought these 2 guns legally a week ago? Very relevant and by far the biggest conern and problem. 

 

Not irrelevant but imo 50 gay people... 50 white people... 50 black people... it's all the same.  It's not the problem. 

Access to these guns are. 

Edited June 13, 2016 by Goalie

[The Unknown Poster]

Motivation is always relevant.  Whether it was radical Islam or homophobia, its relevant. 

Those who want to kill in the name of anything, including radical Islam may not obey gun laws but that doesnt mean as a society we should throw in the towel and not try to restrict assault rifles from being legally obtained.

There can no longer be an argument against restricting these types of firearms.  if the NRA feels so strong in their position, let them speak right now to defend it.  Again, there can no longer be any argument against restricting these types of firearms.  There is no need, be it hunting, personal protection or collecting, for any civilian to have legal access to these weapons.  It must be stopped.  Period.

[Jimmy Pop]

@Goalie I get what you're saying - but try being in the shoes of someone in the LGBT community.  Particularly in states like Florida where gay bashing is popular. It sure as **** isn't irrelevant when a hate crime is involved.

The 3 biggest factors based on what we know so far, IMO:

1. Extreme homophobia, as highlighted by perp's dad.  2. Easy, legal access to guns.  3. Possible extremist/terrorist ties.

America can call this terrorism all they want. I sure hope they respond the same as 9-11, and rally to support the WHOLE country.  Of course, that won't happen. The religious Right won't rally around the LBGT community...musn't be real Americans or something.

This was an American, legally purchasing guns to commit a hate crime based on bigotry he developed in America. 

At the VERY least, it's domestic terrorism.

 

[Jimmy Pop]

13 hours ago, Zontar said:

ISIS claimed responsibility for attack and had warned in the past weeks attacks were coming.

It was a terrorist attack by a Muslim fanatic. Don't let anti-gun bias cloud the truth of what happened.

Terrorists dont and will never obey stricter gun laws - they're stubborn that way.

Quote

“If you need proof that Congress is a hostage to the gun lobby, look no further than today’s vote blocking a bill to prevent known or suspected terrorists from buying guns and explosives,” she said. “Congress has been paralyzed by the gun lobby for years, while more and more Americans are killed in mass shootings. The carnage won’t stop until Congress finds the courage to stand up to the gun lobby and protect the nation.”

(Dec2015) GOP blocks bill to stop terrorists from buying guns

Quote

Since 2004, there have been 2,043 suspected terrorists allowed to buy guns, with 190 denied their purchases.

(Nov2015) NRA defends blocking bill to stop terrorists getting guns

 

Please feel free to enlighten us on the "truth" anytime. 

 

[The Unknown Poster]

Comments from the shooters father (from rolling stone):

The father also addressed his son's actions in a video posted on Facebook. "I don't know what cause this," he said, according to a translation from The New York Times. "I did not know and did not understand that he has anger in his heart." In addition, The Washington Post reports that the elder Mateen declared, "God himself will punish those involved in homosexuality. This is not for the servants [of God]."
 

Yup, sure is a mystery where the shooter learned his beliefs. 

Edited June 13, 2016 by The Unknown Poster

[pigseye]

People should watch Fareed Zakaria's CNN special called Why they Hate Us. There is a big difference between the peace loving Muslins here and those outside America.

[johnzo]

yeah, I'm with Jimmy Pop -- my gay friends are terrified now and are looking over their shoulders, especially with Pride coming up in pretty much every city, especially with the cops getting that L.A. nutcase the same weekend. I am friends-of-friends with some of the victims and watching the social media mourning has been heartbreaking.

Me, I'm not any more scared of life than I was on Saturday, but I'm a married middle-aged white dude. Nobody with guns has marked me as a target.

[Fatty Liver]

14 hours ago, Jacquie said:

And yet this shooter did. According to the ATF, he made two legal gun purchases within a week before the attack. That doesn't sound like there was much planning involved.  As well, terrorist organizations have been known to take credit for attacks when they actually had nothing to do with them. The shooter mentioned ISIS in his 911 call but there has been no evidence so far showing that he was ever a member of a terrorist organization. 

In Santa Barbara, police arrested a man from Indiana after receiving a report about a prowler. When they found his car he had what they described as an arsenal of weapons including three assault rifles, high capacity magazines, ammunition, and a 5 gallon bucket with chemicals to make a bomb. He had come to LA to go to the West Hollywood pride parade. Luckily he was caught before he could use those weapons.

When a Muslim American goes on a shooting spree it is immediately reported to be a terrorist attack connected to radical Islam. When a white Christian male goes on a shooting spree (which happens with a much, much greater frequency in the US) the word "terrorism" almost never is mentioned. What the Orlando shooter did was absolutely despicable and, frankly, I'm glad he's dead. I just hope innocent Muslims won't have to pay for what this guy did.

 

Good point.  Although this guy was born in the US, you just know looking like he did he wasn't living the American dream which probably led to feelings of being an outcast in his own country.  Two common things happen to outcasts, they develop anger issues and they look to associate with gangs/groups or ideologies that will embrace them.  From Trump on down it's open season on Muslim bashing across the land and it is currently accepted for those prejudices to be voiced openly.  Hatred of Muslims in the US is at it's apex and it's not going to get better anytime soon. 

 

[kelownabomberfan]

15 hours ago, Jacquie said:

 

When a Muslim American goes on a shooting spree it is immediately reported to be a terrorist attack connected to radical Islam. When a white Christian male goes on a shooting spree (which happens with a much, much greater frequency in the US) the word "terrorism" almost never is mentioned. What the Orlando shooter did was absolutely despicable and, frankly, I'm glad he's dead. I just hope innocent Muslims won't have to pay for what this guy did.

 

I do like how if a white guy who isn't Muslim shoots people in the US, he immediately is branded a "Christian", no matter what, purely so that the Politically Correct crowd can keep their head in the sand about the rise of Islamic extremism and spout the same propaganda that you are spouting above.  Just because a white guy shoots people doesn't make him a Christian, while a guy screaming "allah Akbar" while he mows down 50 people in a night club does tend to make you think he was probably doing it thanks to his religion. 

[The Unknown Poster]

The radical Muslims want there to be backlash against Muslims though.  Thats part of their schtick.  Create war between Muslims and non-Muslims.

Ofcourse there will be racist dirt bags who blame all Muslims.  I do wonder, however, about how this guy was vetted by G4S (where he would carry a gun) even while under investigation by the FBI.  Was he less vetted because of a desire not to be seen as scrutinizing a Middle Eastern person?

[johnzo]

57 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

I do like how if a white guy who isn't Muslim shoots people in the US, he immediately is branded a "Christian", no matter what

Citation please.

[Jimmy Pop]

47 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

I do like how if a white guy who isn't Muslim shoots people in the US, he immediately is branded a "Christian", no matter what, purely so that the Politically Correct crowd can keep their head in the sand about the rise of Islamic extremism and spout the same propaganda that you are spouting above.  Just because a white guy shoots people doesn't make him a Christian, while a guy screaming "allah Akbar" while he mows down 50 people in a night club does tend to make you think he was probably doing it thanks to his religion. 

Call it politically correct if you want, plenty call it being a decent ******* human being.

Propaganda is calling this anything but a hate crime. 

Head in the sand, is better apt to describe those who can't ******* see America's problem with firearms.

Comments like yours are the epitome of what's dividing our society;  Outlandish claims that have no basis in fact, like your comments about labeling Christians.  A complete lack of good faith discussion, as highlighted by you mocking Jacquie's comments as propaganda. And most importantly, a seemingly lack of empathy or understanding for what's actually taken place  - 50+ LGBT gunned down by a hateful American with a legal firearm.

Lastly, where does this ******* idea come from that the left/liberals etc don't appreciate the rise of extremism?  B/c we're not all "Trump" about it? And more importantly, how does impending answer explain why it's a majority of Conservatives who don't want to keep legal firearms away from suspected terrorists. 

[kelownabomberfan]

16 hours ago, Jacquie said:

. When a white Christian male goes on a shooting spree (which happens with a much, much greater frequency in the US)

 

Citation please.

[Jimmy Pop]

Just now, johnzo said:

Citation please.

Don't hold your breath.