Throw the ball downfield

[Doublezero]

15 hours ago, 17to85 said:

There are lots of ways to get a qb more time, time for the coaches to come up with something that works for the players on the team. I suspect we've been seeing a bit too much of wanting players to do things they're not great at. 

If you give Willy more time to decide what to do, he will take more time. This has been a big part of his problem. Post-snap it's like everything is in slo-mo with him. And, dammit, he takes way too long with pre-snap reads as well. This saps any possibility of the O getting a rhythm or momentum and keeping the opponent on their heels. With Willy, the D always has lots of time to recover & re-set from the prior play. He seems not to have a clue about that. One thing, as you say, that LaPo could do is put the O in perpetual hurry-up, then Willy might adapt his QB muscle memory to the speed of how a pro offence should be run.

[iso_55]

The offense better get its act together or it will be another long season.

[Tracker]

The day after the game on 1290, Walby was equally scathing in his criticism of both the Bomber interior linemen and Willy. He cited Goossen in patricular as having his lunch eaten and Willy for looking confused most of the time. The offense under Willy had a grand total of ONE first down for 14 yards in the first quarter. Yes, it was a pre-season game, but Lawless reported that whispers are creeping out of the locker room that Willy just doesn't have what it takes. Not a good start to the season.

[White Out]

3 minutes ago, tracker said:

The day after the game on 1290, Walby was equally scathing in his criticism of both the Bomber interior linemen and Willy. He cited Goossen in patricular as having his lunch eaten and Willy for looking confused most of the time. The offense under Willy had a grand total of ONE first down for 14 yards in the first quarter. Yes, it was a pre-season game, but Lawless reported that whispers are creeping out of the locker room that Willy just doesn't have what it takes. Not a good start to the season.

Honestly, it's so boring be right nearly all the time when it comes to this stuff. It really takes the surprise and flavour out of life,

[Steve Fanitage]

16 minutes ago, White Out said:

Honestly, it's so boring be right nearly all the time when it comes to this stuff. It really takes the surprise and flavour out of life,

Welcome back to the forum sir. I will be your valet this evening. Please allow me to park your high horse. 

[wbbfan]

2 hours ago, iso_55 said:

The offense better get its act together or it will be another long season.

true of the whole team. Another repeat of what we've seen the last couple years and the teams gonna get blown up top to bottom.

[Logan007]

2 hours ago, White Out said:

Honestly, it's so boring be right nearly all the time when it comes to this stuff. It really takes the surprise and flavour out of life,

[Mr Dee]

Where's the real white out when you really need it?

[Logan007]

6 minutes ago, Mr Dee said:

Where's the real white out when you really need it?

That deserves an LOL.

[Guest J5V]

2 hours ago, White Out said:

Honestly, it's so boring be right nearly all the time when it comes to this stuff. It really takes the surprise and flavour out of life,

[B-F-F-C]

4 hours ago, tracker said:

The day after the game on 1290, Walby was equally scathing in his criticism of both the Bomber interior linemen and Willy. He cited Goossen in patricular as having his lunch eaten and Willy for looking confused most of the time. The offense under Willy had a grand total of ONE first down for 14 yards in the first quarter. Yes, it was a pre-season game, but Lawless reported that whispers are creeping out of the locker room that Willy just doesn't have what it takes. Not a good start to the season.

Sounds like Bluto and I share the same concerns about Willy.    I wont comment on the locker room thing because that's just pure rumour.  I'd rather stick to the facts and what I can see with my own eyes.  

I hope he can work thru it and maybe Buck can coach him up because I don't want to start this starting QB search all over again.   

 

[Tracker]

The history of football is littered with good quarterbacks who had all the tools to become great but lacked that certain something to take the final step. And we have had a lot of them here. Willy has the physical tools and the training but that last step is all up to him, and no one can do it for him. O'Shea and Walters have been patient but they cannot hold the door open for Willy much longer.

[Sean]

Willy just needs to stay on the field. I'm just calling Willy soft! LOL

[Sean]

7 hours ago, iso_55 said:

The offense better get its act together or it will be another long season.

Its preseason with a brand new co-coordinator. Just hope things get progressively better game by game 

[Jpan85]

I highly doubt the Willy thing. I have info even when he was with the Riders he was one of the most respected guys on the team.

[White Out]

My post earlier was , definitely very tongue in cheek. Of course with any joke there's a little bit of truth an I do feel like I've  been on the right side of history with guys like Willy, Pavelec, Stuart, etc.

 

Unlike Ondrej, I want Willy to do well. I think he has good qualities and has the tools. But as others have said he simply doesn't have "it" in my opinion after watching him now for a couple years. He makes bad choices and hangs on to the ball too long. Those aren't traits that a great CFL QB can have.

[KptKrunch]

Well Willy has the tools to be sure, but does he have have the head? Last time I saw him play live, in a whole half, he had I believe two first downs, maybe three. Bombers had 3 points (thanks to the defense turning the ball on the Eskimo side of the ball). What I really remember most of that game is the safety he took late in the half, he had two 'open' receivers and he couldnt' spot either one. He was also hurt on the Safety. Brohm came in for the next series, still in the first half, with the bombers starting around their 20 yard line (give or take). Four or five plays later, Brohm had more yards then Willy had in the entire game thus far. Same defense, same scheme, but Brohm was moving the ball.

Now, could be on the sidelines Brohm was able to figure out while speaking with bellfool where the open receivers so when he came in he knew where to look. That would be my guess. So, as mentioned a few pages ago, I hope the Bombers take a few pages out of the Eskie's (and other teams) playbooks. If Willy is struggling a bit - park him on the bench for a few series, put Nichols in. LaPo can go over the plays while the O is on the field with Willy. If the plays are in fact there, and Willy see's it, he should be able to go back in with more confidence and work with that. 

If Willy can't - Nichols could be the starter by midseason (that's a big IF) and Willy will be traded (not likely given his huge contract) or outright cut for next year. Will be a very interesting year in Wpg with Willy at the helm. Like Whiteout - I hope Willy does well. It's been too long (far too long) since Wpg has had a bonafide #1 QB they can hang their hat on. 

[White Out]

2 hours ago, KptKrunch said:

Well Willy has the tools to be sure, but does he have have the head? Last time I saw him play live, in a whole half, he had I believe two first downs, maybe three. Bombers had 3 points (thanks to the defense turning the ball on the Eskimo side of the ball). What I really remember most of that game is the safety he took late in the half, he had two 'open' receivers and he couldnt' spot either one. He was also hurt on the Safety. Brohm came in for the next series, still in the first half, with the bombers starting around their 20 yard line (give or take). Four or five plays later, Brohm had more yards then Willy had in the entire game thus far. Same defense, same scheme, but Brohm was moving the ball.

.... 

His game in Calgary last year was a good example of his issues. He looked great for some parts of the game, but when it was on the line he threw a terrible interception. He couldn't get a first down in the 2nd half to save his life either.

His late game interceptions against the Riders too were just criminal. Of all teams to throw away the game on, the Riders, ugh. The worst. You can teach a qb how to read a defense better, you can help enhance a QB's muscle memory.. but you can't teach IQ and you can't teach "good decision making". 

[Guest J5V]

1 hour ago, White Out said:

His game in Calgary last year was a good example of his issues. He looked great for some parts of the game, but when it was on the line he threw a terrible interception. He couldn't get a first down in the 2nd half to save his life either.

His late game interceptions against the Riders too were just criminal. Of all teams to throw away the game on, the Riders, ugh. The worst. You can teach a qb how to read a defense better, you can help enhance a QB's muscle memory.. but you can't teach IQ and you can't teach "good decision making". 

This is just plain wrong. I'll change my mind if you can provide a good argument so have at it.

Perhaps you're talking about risk-taking, which is not the same thing.

[Old Bomber Fan]

Not sure if this is the string to make this comment however if not hopefully someone can redirect it. I just wanted to say that over the weekend I watched the remaining televised CFL games as well as highlights from the other games. I will say here that I have concerns about our offense. We constantly here comments like "we are using vanilla offenses" "we are not concerned because people are getting used to the new offense" etc etc. Seem to me watching most of the other teams, their offenses are way ahead of ours. Further their coaches' responses to a lack of productions etc are quite pointed and have stated their displeasure or pleasure of the play in general. What we seem to get is everything is great and we will be ready. I guess we will see on the 24th vanilla or explosive, excuses or accolades, and result or no result. I would be interested in knowing the expectations of others IE what do you think would be an acceptable performance either score (offensive score that is) or simply moving the ball with authority and stats. For me personally I would like to see consistent moving of the ball, minimal 2 and outs. If we have over 300 yards of total offense in the game with limited sacks and 2 and outs I think I would consider that an acceptable start. Any opinions?

[Guest J5V]

4 minutes ago, Old Bomber Fan said:

Not sure if this is the string to make this comment however if not hopefully someone can redirect it. I just wanted to say that over the weekend I watched the remaining televised CFL games as well as highlights from the other games. I will say here that I have concerns about our offense. We constantly here comments like "we are using vanilla offenses" "we are not concerned because people are getting used to the new offense" etc etc. Seem to me watching most of the other teams, their offenses are way ahead of ours. Further their coaches' responses to a lack of productions etc are quite pointed and have stated their displeasure or pleasure of the play in general. What we seem to get is everything is great and we will be ready. I guess we will see on the 24th vanilla or explosive, excuses or accolades, and result or no result. I would be interested in knowing the expectations of others IE what do you think would be an acceptable performance either score (offensive score that is) or simply moving the ball with authority and stats. For me personally I would like to see consistent moving of the ball, minimal 2 and outs. If we have over 300 yards of total offense in the game with limited sacks and 2 and outs I think I would consider that an acceptable start. Any opinions?

Yes I agree that minimal 2-and-outs and a consistent moving of the ball would constitute the type of improvement that most would find acceptable. 300 yards a game consistently would be a dream come true. I have already stated my displeasure at this "new" offense and in particular, the lack of the sort of things that were supposed to offset our lack of pocket protection by the O-line, ie. the quick-hitters, screen-passes, moving the pocket, mix of running and passing, stretching the field, etc. I have not witnessed "explosive" neither have I heard "accolades" or witnessed "results".

My opinion is that we will get what we have always gotten from a Lapo offense, a conservative approach and a lack of imagination. If Lapo's "new" offensive schemes suddenly start producing 300 yards a game I'll be pleasantly surprised and completely delighted. I won't be terribly disappointed though. I've seen this movie before.

[White Out]

57 minutes ago, J5V said:

This is just plain wrong. I'll change my mind if you can provide a good argument so have at it.

Perhaps you're talking about risk-taking, which is not the same thing.

Decision making isn't a tool like speed or strength that can be honed and sharpened with training.

I was clear to draw a line at decision making and reading a defense. Let me make this analogy, it's like wisdom and intelligence. You're born with intelligence, and, you're born with certain decision making skills. You can't change either. Wisdom can be earned and gained though, and can compliment intelligence. Just like wisdom, reading a defence and being more experienced at the QB positions can help what is perceived at decision making but isn't. Call it poor risk management, I don't mind that. But decision making isn't a muscle in your brain or body that can be honed. Decision making in a snap second of time is a part of ones intelligence and capacity to process a situation. I'm not saying Drew is stupid. But he's getting close to me considering him "quarterback stupid".

 

Maybe I'm misinterpreting it as bad reading of the D schemes and a combination of added poor risk management. Maybe. However you want to label it, Drew doesn't have enough quality of said item. And it's a little late in his career to just fix. Don't look now but he's 30 in November... this isn't a kid.

Edited June 19, 2016 by White Out

[Old Bomber Fan]

I agree, personally I haven't been a fan of LaPo since he was here to replace Worman. I think he rode the coat tails of his offense. Further comments from Nichol regarding having seen this offense in other places makes me think that is merely taking other people's ideas and implementing them in his offense. We will see however whatever the outcome there SHOULD be no excuses for ineptitude this time around. They used the mini camp for the offense only, they have had a full training camp to demonstrate they absorbed it (which they haven't displayed even though they had a reduced play book) and now have an additional what 12 days to "get ready" for the first real game. As has been mentioned time will tell and we will see. Still hoping though it is the Blue and Gold

[Tracker]

LaPolice has a lot to prove, as does Willy. O'Shea has been cut a lot of slack and there are few GMs who would have kept a coach with that record. There's a lot riding on the first 9 games, and the natives are getting restless.

[comedygeek]

The team hasn't played a real game yet, and this forum is already acting like we're going into Week 17 with a 2-14 record. Jesus.

I get not wanting to get your hopes up with nothing proven yet, and I even get having some concerns (obviously) based on past efforts, but when the most positive thing you can say about your QB and team is, "they're awful, but I hope I'm proven wrong," I think maybe you need a little bit more optimism in your life.

Injuries are a major major concern for Willy, but here are his stat lines for the 4 games he played in full last year:

06-27	1	SSK	22	25	325	3	0	13.0
07-10	3	MTL	20	29	251	0	0	8.7
07-18	4	CGY	22	27	289	2	1	10.7
07-30	6	BC	17	25	269	2	0	10.8

It's a small sample size, obviously, but we won 3 of them and -- yes, with some bad second half play and lack of finish from Willy -- barely lost the 4th. When you can put up those kind of numbers in a Marcel B. offense, that has to mean something.

Maybe I'm just a naïve idiot, but I still think Willy's got what it takes, and that he'll learn this system and play well in it. The legit question is his health, and if he misses lots of games again this year, I definitely think that's it for him in Blue and Gold.

But when the guy is able to play a whole game, more often than not he's bringing us W's.