So who's worth keeping?

[Blueandgold]

12 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

Phillipe Gagnon or Charlie Vailancourt would look really nice right now.

We would actually be on our way to building a decent O-line if we had one of those guys in the lineup...

[rebusrankin]

1 minute ago, Blueandgold said:

We would actually be on our way to building a decent O-line if we had one of those guys in the lineup...

Both starting for their teams. But hey, we have a developing ST ace.

[WBBFanWest]

21 minutes ago, BomberDynasty said:

Hey, drastic times call for drastic measures. Scorched earth now, all the way, baby. 

So far, a surgical and less passionate response has not seemed to produce good results. Its time to give this club a radical mastectomy 

Sounds like you are the type that would be afraid to make changes. Do you have an anal retention problem? I know someone you could see to help with that.

There's a passionate response and then there's a hysterical response.  Your post was closer to the latter.  I'm all for making changes.  I'd prefer well thought out changes rather than "you jilted me so I'm going to burn down your house" type changes.

[iso_55]

1 minute ago, WBBFanWest said:

There's a passionate response and then there's a hysterical response.  Your post was closer to the latter.  I'm all for making changes.  I'd prefer well thought out changes rather than "you jilted me so I'm going to burn down your house" type changes.

What about well thought out Blue Bomber decisions? Like giving up a second round pick for Waggoner. These "well thought out" decisions or responses go both ways.

[WBBFanWest]

12 minutes ago, iso_55 said:

What about well thought out Blue Bomber decisions? Like giving up a second round pick for Waggoner. These "well thought out" decisions or responses go both ways.

Ya, I just can't figure out why Walters doesn't have our "hindsight is 20-20" skill.  Yes, another top notch O-line man would have been nice to pick up and if Walters had known then that he'd be giving up 2nd overall, he might not have used the pick the way he did.  It's almost like he's not able to see into the future and is being forced to use his judgement.  By the way, seeing that Calgary was, as I understand it, willing to give up a 1st rounder to get Waggoner, I really can't fault Walters for doing it.  

[DR. CFL]

O line depth is a hallmark of any successful team. Montreal has been the prime example of drafting, developing and keeping 

National o linemen.

[Blueandgold]

28 minutes ago, WBBFanWest said:

Ya, I just can't figure out why Walters doesn't have our "hindsight is 20-20" skill.  Yes, another top notch O-line man would have been nice to pick up and if Walters had known then that he'd be giving up 2nd overall, he might not have used the pick the way he did.  It's almost like he's not able to see into the future and is being forced to use his judgement.  By the way, seeing that Calgary was, as I understand it, willing to give up a 1st rounder to get Waggoner, I really can't fault Walters for doing it.  

It was a horrible pick at the time and even worse in hindsight. Poblah was a bust but he was still a good pick without the benefit of hindsight. I can't say the same about Waggoner. 

[Goalie]

I'm a little more concerned about the D at thus point. The O? I figured it would take a few games for them to gel. The D tho? Yikes. Ugly. I'm not sure if it's the players. I think having adams back would help lots. Fogg and posey are terrible. But I don't like the way Hall calls a game. Just 2 soft. Our D players aren't that bad but I feel they aren't being put in the position to succeed right now. Honestly if I'm getting rid of anyone right now... it's Hall.  Soft zone doesn't work. Giving guys 15 yard cushions don't work. Need to be more agressive on D and the first 2 games we have been very soft. That's a coaching issue. Last game. .. lots of missed tackles... that's a player issue but the soft zone no pressure D is on hall 

Edited July 4, 2016 by Goalie

[Logan007]

1 hour ago, BomberDynasty said:

Left em out on purpose.

They are not as good as you think they are. Is your opinion based on Walters telling you that they are good? 

So far Wild and Bass have underwhelmed. Neither of those guys is a James West or Tyrone Jones, both are serviceable, but mediocre. They only look good because they have been playing on really bad teams. Is mediocrity what you are shooting for in the future? If so, you must have enjoyed the past 5 years.

With that terrible OLine, Harris will not be putting up the numbers he did with BC and people are going to change their tunes pretty quick. Cam Marshall showed more behind that bad OLine than Harris has so far. People are blinded by the fact he is a hometown kid. I could care less - just put the best player possible on the field.

Corney is a raw rookie and yeah I would probably add him to my list of keepers. Keep in mind he is unproven and not really in a position to be starting every down. My list was directed mostly at the regular starters, not the practice roster, backups or special teamers. Too soon to tell with Corney, but this team needs stars that are playing at a high level now, not guys that may be good 4 years down the road.

 

Yeah, one of the best RB's in the league...let's just get rid of him.  He put up 80 rushing yards and 40 receiving yards against Montreal and 13 rushing and 87 receiving against Calgary.  Yeah, he's not worth anything. 

You know, you're making yourself sound like an ass claiming that I'm a Walters fan, or that I'm blinded by Harris being from Winnipeg.  The only person blinded here is you by your rage that the team isn't producing, so instead of thinking straight, you'd rather fly off the handle and tell everyone who doesn't agree with you that they must be fanboy's of so and so, and blinded by this or that.  If you're going to put an argument forth, at least have some intelligence to it.

Ok, well, I can see this thread isn't going anywhere anymore.

[WBBFanWest]

1 hour ago, Blueandgold said:

It was a horrible pick at the time and even worse in hindsight. Poblah was a bust but he was still a good pick without the benefit of hindsight. I can't say the same about Waggoner. 

Well, I certainly can't argue with the well defended and thought provoking points you raised.

Edited July 4, 2016 by WBBFanWest

[iso_55]

1 hour ago, WBBFanWest said:

Ya, I just can't figure out why Walters doesn't have our "hindsight is 20-20" skill.  Yes, another top notch O-line man would have been nice to pick up and if Walters had known then that he'd be giving up 2nd overall, he might not have used the pick the way he did.  It's almost like he's not able to see into the future and is being forced to use his judgement.  By the way, seeing that Calgary was, as I understand it, willing to give up a 1st rounder to get Waggoner, I really can't fault Walters for doing it.  

Supplemental picks are fine for teams like Calgary & Hamilton who want to add to their already talented roster. Not a team like the Bombers who are desperate for Canadian starters on the OL. Not backup linebackers. And Walters gets paid to make these decisions so if he doesn't make the right one well, the criticism on him. Not saying Waggoner is a bad football player but he wasn't worth losing the 2nd selection in the CFL Draft over .We already made a bad supplemental pick when Joe Mack was GM with Kito Poblah. Other than Ted Laurent how many of these picks have been successful?

Edited July 4, 2016 by iso_55

[Fatty Liver]

42 minutes ago, Logan007 said:

Yeah, one of the best RB's in the league...let's just get rid of him.  He put up 80 rushing yards and 40 receiving yards against Montreal and 13 rushing and 87 receiving against Calgary.  Yeah, he's not worth anything. 

You know, you're making yourself sound like an ass claiming that I'm a Walters fan, or that I'm blinded by Harris being from Winnipeg.  The only person blinded here is you by your rage that the team isn't producing, so instead of thinking straight, you'd rather fly off the handle and tell everyone who doesn't agree with you that they must be fanboy's of so and so, and blinded by this or that.  If you're going to put an argument forth, at least have some intelligence to it.

Ok, well, I can see this thread isn't going anywhere anymore.

As are most threads in the last two days, this is what happens when bountiful optimism turns to bitter ash.

[iso_55]

48 minutes ago, Logan007 said:

Yeah, one of the best RB's in the league...let's just get rid of him.  He put up 80 rushing yards and 40 receiving yards against Montreal and 13 rushing and 87 receiving against Calgary.  Yeah, he's not worth anything. 

You know, you're making yourself sound like an ass claiming that I'm a Walters fan, or that I'm blinded by Harris being from Winnipeg.  The only person blinded here is you by your rage that the team isn't producing, so instead of thinking straight, you'd rather fly off the handle and tell everyone who doesn't agree with you that they must be fanboy's of so and so, and blinded by this or that.  If you're going to put an argument forth, at least have some intelligence to it.

Ok, well, I can see this thread isn't going anywhere anymore.

People are angry & have a right to be. Promises are constantly being made & have been for years but are seldom delilvered.

[WBBFanWest]

6 minutes ago, iso_55 said:

Supplemental picks are fine for teams like Calgary & Hamilton who want to add to their already talented roster. Not a team like the Bombers who are desperate for Canadian starters on the OL. Not backup linebackers. And Walters gets paid to make these decisions so if he doesn't make the right one well, the criticism on him. Not saying Waggoner is a bad football player but he wasn't worth losing the 2nd selection in the CFL Draft over .We already made a bad supplemental pick when Joe Mack was GM with Kito Poblah. Other than Ted Laurent how many of these picks have been successful?

And how exactly was Walters to know that he was giving away the 2nd overall pick?  Answer:  He didn't.  Maybe he thought that he was getting a really talented, maybe even starter level Canadian player, just like Poblah was supposed to be.  Funny thing, I remember when Polbah was drafted and I don't recall anyone saying that it was a bad pick at that time, but then again, hindsight wasn't available at that point.

[iso_55]

1 hour ago, WBBFanWest said:

And how exactly was Walters to know that he was giving away the 2nd overall pick?  Answer:  He didn't.  Maybe he thought that he was getting a really talented, maybe even starter level Canadian player, just like Poblah was supposed to be.  Funny thing, I remember when Polbah was drafted and I don't recall anyone saying that it was a bad pick at that time, but then again, hindsight wasn't available at that point.

The lesson is that until this team can afford to whiff on supplemental draft picks stick to the script & draft players in the CFL Draft only. And don't over estimate your team. Especially THIS team.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

18 hours ago, BomberDynasty said:

It's by far easier to list all those who should be gone ASAP rather than anything that should stay. Out of the ones to keep, most are mediocre, and could either go or stay. So here you go:

Gone Yesterday:

-----------------------

Autistic Iron Mike

Mouthy Family Guy

Richie Prevent-D Hall

Used Car Salesman Walters

The whole OLine except for Chung

The whole DLine except for Westerman

The whole linebacking corps, including Leggett

The whole receiving corps except for Mayo and Davis

The whole secondary except for Randle and Adams

All running backs except for Flanders

 

Keep:

-------

Chung

Westerman

Mayo and Davis

Randle and Adams

Flanders

All current QBs (until someone better is found)

 

I wouldn't wait to the end of the year, or even game 3 to effect a plan to make these changes. I'd start making them using the following strategy:

1) Bring in replacement candidates for the coaching positions now as "advisors" before firing each of the above. Have them work in parallel and make their own assessments of the problems, and then when they feel comfortable, fire each one of those losers on my list above and have the new candidates take over seamlessly.

2) With the new management and coaches installed with a seamless transition, do the same for each of the players above targeted for elimination. Keep bringing in competition until you find a player better than the target, and then fire or trade the target.

 

Do it now, and use the entire remainder of this year as a platform to experiment and perfect the improvements by test driving coaches players and personnel people. We already know this team will miss the playoff again this year, so use the year as year 1 of the rebuild rather than making next year as year 1.

 

Start the plan to make the changes immediately.

 

Well ****- looks like Morris knows how to usE a VPN, 

 

To be confirmed in the near future with:

-God Awful nick names that only knuckle scrapers and people of low character find amusing.

-Pining about this useless person, that useless person here. (Hobos to be sure)

-Using weird-assed parallels where there are none.

- Using wholly inappropriate metaphors, though usually low brow similes.

-Lyle Bauer Rant that comes from outta the blue!

 

All we need now is for Morris to unleash the weird. I am dying for it- I have missed it soooo much!

Edited July 4, 2016 by wanna-b-fanboy

[WBBFanWest]

6 hours ago, iso_55 said:

The lesson is that until this team can afford to whiff on supplemental draft picks stick to the script & draft players in the CFL Draft only. And don't over estimate your team. Especially THIS team.

I think the lesson is that you grab good Canadians where ever and whenever you can.   Draft, free agency, supplemental, press gang, whatever it takes. There's not a lot more certainty in the main draft.  First rounders can end up being duds too, so the idea that we can only pick people in the regular draft is, to say the least, flawed.

[The Unknown Poster]

What are options for D Coordinator if Hall becomes the first fall guy?

[bearpants]

9 hours ago, Blueandgold said:

It was a horrible pick at the time and even worse in hindsight. Poblah was a bust but he was still a good pick without the benefit of hindsight. I can't say the same about Waggoner. 

Actually that's not even true... we could have had Ted Laurent instead of Poblah... hindsight is a powerful tool... some people use it to try make themselves seem smart*...

*disclaimer: shot not directed at you

[Root]

11 hours ago, rebusrankin said:

Phillipe Gagnon or Charlie Vailancourt would look really nice right now.

I guess Walters is forced to say Waggoner is better than Gagnon or Vailancourt because it was his decision. Maybe he was influenced into that idiotic move by working with Joe Mack? Who knows?

[bearpants]

17 hours ago, BomberDynasty said:

Autistic Iron Mike

 

13 hours ago, BomberDynasty said:

Autistic Mikey

 

You constantly calling Mike O'Shea autistic is not only offensive, but just plain ignorant... that's fine if you want to make up stupid nicknames for player/coaches you don't like... but to label someone with a serious mental condition... I would hope even you're better than that...

[Root]

37 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

What are options for D Coordinator if Hall becomes the first fall guy?

Rubbish like Gary Etcheverry and Greg Marshall are still lurking around the periphery of the CFL. So is Jim Daly for that matter. None of them are the answer.

Hall seems rather mechanical and ultra-focused on not being burned for 80+ yard plays. He seems to lack the defensive creativity that confuses opposing QBs and OCs. But the players love him so I guess that's the standard by which he's being judged, unfortunately.

[The Unknown Poster]

1 minute ago, Root said:

Rubbish like Gary Etcheverry and Greg Marshall are still lurking around the periphery of the CFL. So is Jim Daly for that matter. None of them are the answer.

Hall seems rather mechanical and ultra-focused on not being burned for 80+ yard plays. He seems to lack the defensive creativity that confuses opposing QBs and OCs. But the players love him so I guess that's the standard by which he's being judged, unfortunately.

Its a bit frustrating when the opposition always seems to have such tight and aggressive D on us...making our O so difficult.  And then when its reversed, our D just seems to never be that tight or aggressive. 

I suppose its the fault of our O to a degree.

[Valderan_CA]

29 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Its a bit frustrating when the opposition always seems to have such tight and aggressive D on us...making our O so difficult.  And then when its reversed, our D just seems to never be that tight or aggressive. 

I suppose its the fault of our O to a degree.

At the end of the 3rd quarter Calgary had the ball for almost DOUBLE the amount of time we had the ball.

 

You could say our defense wasn't getting off the field, but really it was our offense not staying on the field.  

[Root]

The one name I missed out for replacing the venerable Mr. Hall is Corie Chamblin the former Grey Cup winning Rider head coach, who's got a defensive pedigree. If memory serves didn't he already do time in Winnipeg?

I think the top dogs like Miller and Walters might not want a guy with a soiled and arrogant reputation coming into town and ruining the current love fest between players and coaches. But the bow has to break somehow!