Week 3 (vs Ham...Now With Depth Chart)

[Floyd]

4 minutes ago, Atomic said:

No one was angrier than 17to85 in 2009.

That's when I started on these boards...  only joined because i felt like Kelly and Bauer were gutting an aging but still talented team and putting this franchise into a death spiral...  boy was I wrong... 

 

[DR. CFL]

Patience and progress....out the yin yang. Too much of A and not enough of B.....you can flip the calendar back as far as you like for the lack of progress. We continue to see the same week in and week out. If you want to spout out the week 3 BS your memory is far too short and sit out with the concussion excuse.

[JuranBoldenRules]

This game is absolutely huge.  The Bombers have got their collective asses kicked the past two weeks, almost laughably.  I personally can't recall a Bomber team with reasonable expectations that came out of the gates to start a season and literally face planted in the first 2 weeks like this.  They need to prove to themselves this week that what happened in those two games is not what they are as a team.  And they get the challenge of Hamilton, probably the closest thing to a physically dominant team that there is currently.

If this game is a repeat of the first 2, I think we see a few pretty significant roster changes, like vets who are maybe coasting a bit or otherwise not performing watching week 4 in street clothes on the 1 game IR.

[Floyd]

1 hour ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

This game is absolutely huge.  The Bombers have got their collective asses kicked the past two weeks, almost laughably.  I personally can't recall a Bomber team with reasonable expectations that came out of the gates to start a season and literally face planted in the first 2 weeks like this.  They need to prove to themselves this week that what happened in those two games is not what they are as a team.  And they get the challenge of Hamilton, probably the closest thing to a physically dominant team that there is currently.

If this game is a repeat of the first 2, I think we see a few pretty significant roster changes, like vets who are maybe coasting a bit or otherwise not performing watching week 4 in street clothes on the 1 game IR.

2008...  

[17to85]

3 hours ago, Atomic said:

No one was angrier than 17to85 in 2009.

That's because I felt that Mike Kelly was actively setting the team back with his actions. I never felt that Mack or Walters are doing that even if the losses are there. Both are trying to add to the team and depth rather than moving it in hopes of eeking out an extra meaningless in the long run win. These guys may not be the long term solutions here, but they are improving the depth so I have some patience for them. Still lacking some star power in my mind but considering how the depth had been so poor I got time for em. 

[Armchair GM]

This team shouldn't be as bad as they've been.  I actually think the OL has been at least middle-of-the-pack.  We're actually to some degree, using the screen game.  We're doing things that in past years I've wished we would do, but didn't. But we're not staying on the field on O, and we can't string anything together. Our D can't win us games like BC, MTL, and HAM's can.  They're bottom 4.  They can be better, but it starts with momentum, which starts with the O.

It all comes down to quarterbacking. Willy needs to recognize blitzes and call protection changes. He needs to understand that even if those changes are made, the blitzers are coming, so have at least 2 hot route available. LaPo's offense seems to often allow Harris to slip free, and one SB to be available for a screen.

Honestly, the pieces are there offensively. It would just be f**king nice if they put them together.

 

[17to85]

4 minutes ago, Armchair GM said:

This team shouldn't be as bad as they've been.  I actually think the OL has been at least middle-of-the-pack.  We're actually to some degree, using the screen game.  We're doing things that in past years I've wished we would do, but didn't. But we're not staying on the field on O, and we can't string anything together. Our D can't win us games like BC, MTL, and HAM's can.  They're bottom 4.  They can be better, but it starts with momentum, which starts with the O.

It all comes down to quarterbacking. Willy needs to recognize blitzes and call protection changes. He needs to understand that even if those changes are made, the blitzers are coming, so have at least 2 hot route available. LaPo's offense seems to often allow Harris to slip free, and one SB to be available for a screen.

Honestly, the pieces are there offensively. It would just be f**king nice if they put them together.

 

It seems like the biggest problem has been miscommunications at bad times. Considering how much turnover there has been perhaps that's not to be unexpected. I mean we got 3/4 of the DL is new, 3/5 of the secondary is new (I know posey was here for a bit last year but I am still calling him new) and one guy coming back from missing the year to injury as well. Linebackers were all here before but you got guys playing new positions. So inconsistencies with the communicating probably should be expected. 

Same deal on offense, new offensive coordinator, bunch of new receivers, new RB, some changes on the offensive line, but not a lot. Plus Willy is really gunshy and teams won't stop coming after him until the team shows that it can make them pay for doing it so it's an uphill battle there. Still though, after 2 weeks I am more concerned about the defense than the offense. Offense is supposed to start out slowly when there are a bunch of changes. 

[Floyd]

50 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

It seems like the biggest problem has been miscommunications at bad times. Considering how much turnover there has been perhaps that's not to be unexpected. I mean we got 3/4 of the DL is new, 3/5 of the secondary is new (I know posey was here for a bit last year but I am still calling him new) and one guy coming back from missing the year to injury as well. Linebackers were all here before but you got guys playing new positions. So inconsistencies with the communicating probably should be expected. 

Same deal on offense, new offensive coordinator, bunch of new receivers, new RB, some changes on the offensive line, but not a lot. Plus Willy is really gunshy and teams won't stop coming after him until the team shows that it can make them pay for doing it so it's an uphill battle there. Still though, after 2 weeks I am more concerned about the defense than the offense. Offense is supposed to start out slowly when there are a bunch of changes. 

I really like that Walters makes a splash in free agency but I do think we manage to blow up the team almost every single year... starting in 2008...

I know money is an issue and the team needed a jolt but do you really need to cut all of Turner, Denmark, Bucknor, Washington, Cotton, Shell, etc...  I agree with upgrading but we seem to have a new core every year.  Is Macho Harris any different from Lin-J Shell?  Is Brendan Morgan a better safety than Bucknor?  Adams a better slot than Denmark?  Cotton versus Flanders?

From what I see, we only really have one returning vet that is in the exact same position as last year - Bruce Johnson...  Randle, Westerman, Bass, Leggett have all been moved around... just wonder if that isn't a factor.

[Eternal optimist]

I'm optimistic... games always start out 0 - 0 at least, so there's that.

[gcdrought]

I know we're the underdog, but the Bombers just have to be motivated to prove they're better than people think.  Time to begin turning this around.  Go Blue and Gold.

[Fatty Liver]

8 hours ago, 17to85 said:

It seems like the biggest problem has been miscommunications at bad times. Considering how much turnover there has been perhaps that's not to be unexpected. I mean we got 3/4 of the DL is new, 3/5 of the secondary is new (I know posey was here for a bit last year but I am still calling him new) and one guy coming back from missing the year to injury as well. Linebackers were all here before but you got guys playing new positions. So inconsistencies with the communicating probably should be expected. 

Same deal on offense, new offensive coordinator, bunch of new receivers, new RB, some changes on the offensive line, but not a lot. Plus Willy is really gunshy and teams won't stop coming after him until the team shows that it can make them pay for doing it so it's an uphill battle there. Still though, after 2 weeks I am more concerned about the defense than the offense. Offense is supposed to start out slowly when there are a bunch of changes. 

I'd vote for this.  I don't believe there is a lack of talent on the roster, especially in the LB core and the D-backfield as they have proved in the past that they are quite capable as individuals and just need to "put it together" as a cohesive unit.  Injuries have already decimated the D-backs so that is going to continue to be a schmozzle until the main-stays are healthy once again.  Whether they have adequately replaced Washington remains to be seen but having Posey and Fogg playing side by side may not have been the brightest idea ever, same goes for the premature disposal of Bucknor.

As for Richie hall, I think once he has his starting lineup back on it's feet he will tighten them up.  He's not lacking in experience or brains and he does have a couple of GC rings in his pocket so he deserves some trust that he has the capacity to figure it out.

I think what may be lacking on the roster is player leadership, as Leggett alluded to at the end of last season.  Having a couple of players on both sides of the ball that play the game with exuberance and character like Ty Jones, Odell Willis or Nik Lewis may not fit O'Shea's perfect player profile of polite young men, but they do add a necessary ingredient that seems to be lacking on this team. 

A good coach like Cal recognizes and allows a diversity of personalities and exuberance as long as it achieves the end goal, which is winning,  O'Shea seems to prefer players that he would be proud to call "son".

A motor-mouth never shuts up and never lets his teammates forget what they are on the field to accomplish, they are loud in their praise and harsh in their criticism but they are always animated.   The great ones back up their mouth with their play and inspire competition and enthusiasm on the field which creates a positive vibe.  Get a few of these players on each side of the ball to play off of each other and this team might begin to make headway.  A return to Swaggerville???

 

 

Edited July 7, 2016 by Throw Long Bannatyne

[Floyd]

Swaggerville lives in Hamilton now.

[Mark F]

5 hours ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

 

A good coach like Cal recognizes and allows a diversity of personalities and exuberance as long as it achieves the end goal, which is winning,  O'Shea seems to prefer players that he would be proud to call "son".

A motor-mouth never shuts up and never lets his teammates forget what they are on the field to accomplish, they are loud in their praise and harsh in their criticism but they are always animated.

Been thinking the same thing.... These players need to be allowed to have some fun..... It seems like that's been taken away. Maybe a bit too much "stiff upper lip"  or maybe cadet training/good citizenship  in the style that's been brought to the team. I read here quite a while ago that a coach was checking with the kitchen staff to see how the players behaved. dont know if that was true, if it was... sounds like a tone setter.

They don't play in the CFL to get rich. Take the non money reward away from them, and there isn't much left.

Edited July 7, 2016 by Mark F
quotation marks added

[O2L]

While it's extremely hard to feel excited these days (I used to jump out of bed on game day and have trouble falling asleep the night before, not so much anymore), I can't help but think of the underperforming BC Lions that started 0-5 and turned their team around when everyone had written them off. I'm not positive, but wasn't that actually the 2011 team that won the cup? We started off 8-1 and went on a losing streak to fall backwards into the big game and they started off 0-5 then finished strong? Or am I confusing seasons? Regardless, that team played terribly for five games then turned it around. I'm not saying we'll do the same, but knowing that it's happened in recent history is about the only straw I have left to grasp. 

[Bigblue204]

30 minutes ago, O2L said:

While it's extremely hard to feel excited these days (I used to jump out of bed on game day and have trouble falling asleep the night before, not so much anymore), I can't help but think of the underperforming BC Lions that started 0-5 and turned their team around when everyone had written them off. I'm not positive, but wasn't that actually the 2011 team that won the cup? We started off 8-1 and went on a losing streak to fall backwards into the big game and they started off 0-5 then finished strong? Or am I confusing seasons? Regardless, that team played terribly for five games then turned it around. I'm not saying we'll do the same, but knowing that it's happened in recent history is about the only straw I have left to grasp. 

you're memory serves you correctly. I'm also hoping to see a turn around like that. But that type of turn around isn't the norm. Saying that, we certainly have the talent on this team to be more competitive than we have been!

 

[Jimmy Pop]

33 minutes ago, O2L said:

While it's extremely hard to feel excited these days (I used to jump out of bed on game day and have trouble falling asleep the night before, not so much anymore), I can't help but think of the underperforming BC Lions that started 0-5 and turned their team around when everyone had written them off. I'm not positive, but wasn't that actually the 2011 team that won the cup? We started off 8-1 and went on a losing streak to fall backwards into the big game and they started off 0-5 then finished strong? Or am I confusing seasons? Regardless, that team played terribly for five games then turned it around. I'm not saying we'll do the same, but knowing that it's happened in recent history is about the only straw I have left to grasp. 

It's not how you start the season, it's how you finish.

Regardless of our horrid last 2 decades, underwhelming displays by this regime to date and every other negative thing you can think of - - - we're 0-2.

16 games to right the ship. 

[Tracker]

3 minutes ago, Jimmy Pop said:

It's not how you start the season, it's how you finish.

Regardless of our horrid last 2 decades, underwhelming displays by this regime to date and every other negative thing you can think of - - - we're 0-2.

16 games to right the ship. 

I see this game as pivotal to the season. Given the people involved with the team, I do not know how the team morale can survive another beating or even come back after another anorexic first half.

[do or die]

Pivotal, alright.....coming back home 0-3 to face a physical Edmonton team, that we have struggled against.....in front of a even further disgruntled base, is to be avoided......

[17to85]

9 minutes ago, do or die said:

Pivotal, alright.....coming back home 0-3 to face a physical Edmonton team, that we have struggled against.....in front of a even further disgruntled base, is to be avoided......

My question though is, what is Edmonton actually going to be like this season? A big part of the struggles vs. Edmonton recently was how many issues this team has hand handling blitzes and no one blitzes as much as Chris Jones does. Are they still going to be the same team without him around? 

[Goalie]

Hamilton. Man we never match up well vs Hamilton. Their D is pretty ferocious out there. Masoli starting so who knows but man... if we can get average O play combined with very good D and special teams play.... we might pull off the DUB 

[17to85]

yeah the Hamilton D gives our offense fits traditionally. Hopefully the D comes out pissed off and angry about last week and generates some good things for the team because they'll need it. 

[Mike]

I'm already on record stating that one of Edmonton and Calgary misses the playoffs this year.

[Blueandgold]

23 minutes ago, Mike said:

I'm already on record stating that one of Edmonton and Calgary misses the playoffs this year.

I can't see that happening based on how bad Winnipeg&Sask have looked. 

[Floyd]

1 hour ago, do or die said:

Pivotal, alright.....coming back home 0-3 to face a physical Edmonton team, that we have struggled against.....in front of a even further disgruntled base, is to be avoided......

Do we really have to add 'that we have struggled against' anymore...?  Includes pretty much everyone now

[Mr. Perfect]

19 minutes ago, Blueandgold said:

I can't see that happening based on how bad Winnipeg&Sask have looked. 

Two weeks of play, regardless of how good or bad provides very little as to how a division will play out over a full season.