GDT: Edmonton @ Winnipeg

[17to85]

5 minutes ago, Captain Blue said:

Willy was bad. 

He is locking onto receivers, failing to anticipate blitzes and missed open throws with a clean pocket. Those are some really bad tendencies for him right now. I've supported Willy (and will continue to, as he should get more starts) and blamed the majority of it on the OL. Today I thought a lot of it was on Willy. He had a clean pocket on his first interception. He had a clean pocket when he put a few of his tosses today in the turf. Those are throws that must be completions. 

I don't think there is a need to choose between the OL being the problem or Willy being the problem though. I think the OL is bad, but I think Willy exacerbates the issue. I would have pulled him today.

Willy does get rattled, as many qbs in the past have here from the constant hits. He is fragile mentally at this point and needs to be supported better. Not being able to get the run game going makes it worse, the fact that the only reliable plays this team have are the short passes is just not going to do a lot. This team needs to take a slow approach to rebuilding the collective confidence but fans have no patience for that. 

[Blueandgold]

1 minute ago, 17to85 said:

Willy does get rattled, as many qbs in the past have here from the constant hits. He is fragile mentally at this point and needs to be supported better. Not being able to get the run game going makes it worse, the fact that the only reliable plays this team have are the short passes is just not going to do a lot. This team needs to take a slow approach to rebuilding the collective confidence but fans have no patience for that. 

Year three of a 13-27 rebuild and you talk about the fans not having patience. 

[Captain Blue]

2 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Willy does get rattled, as many qbs in the past have here from the constant hits. He is fragile mentally at this point and needs to be supported better. Not being able to get the run game going makes it worse, the fact that the only reliable plays this team have are the short passes is just not going to do a lot. This team needs to take a slow approach to rebuilding the collective confidence but fans have no patience for that. 

I think they are doing a lot to support Willy. The players around him are better. His receivers and running back and yes, even his offensive line is better than last year. The short passes are designed to build confidence, build momentum and space out the field. I would argue they have done quite a lot to support him and that those short passes are the only thing keeping his numbers looking decent. I would be interested to see the split, because if we threw more intermediate and deep routes I don't think Willy's numbers will look near as good.  He underthrew several deep balls today - including one near the end when he had Dressler open for a moment for a game-winning TD.

[Mr. Perfect]

55 minutes ago, pigseye said:

Now I remember why we fired Lapo, twice.

You mean running hitch passes to Dressler five times in a game for negative yardage isn't a good idea? Well damn.

[do or die]

I am paitent.....while waiting for us to win more than 25% of our games at home...

[Fatty Liver]

1 hour ago, Captain Blue said:

I think they are doing a lot to support Willy. The players around him are better. His receivers and running back and yes, even his offensive line is better than last year. The short passes are designed to build confidence, build momentum and space out the field. I would argue they have done quite a lot to support him and that those short passes are the only thing keeping his numbers looking decent. I would be interested to see the split, because if we threw more intermediate and deep routes I don't think Willy's numbers will look near as good.  He underthrew several deep balls today - including one near the end when he had Dressler open for a moment for a game-winning TD.

Willy is averaging about one long completion per game, he just does not seem to have the accuracy or the vision to make those plays work, they're all hope and a prayer. 

[Tracker]

9 hours ago, pigseye said:

Now I remember why we fired Lapo, twice.

Hat trick for LaPolice?

[Taynted_Fayth]

7 hours ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

Willy is averaging about one long completion per game, he just does not seem to have the accuracy or the vision to make those plays work, they're all hope and a prayer. 

in fairness i was sitting relatively close to that 2nd last bomb to Dressler and got a 1 v 1 match up.  i cant remember the esks DB but he seriously had like a foot height advantage and used that height to umbrella dressler.  The ball was on the money but dresslers height really played a factor

[Logan007]

The D was doing so well last night, why couldn't they break past the Edm Oline...like...ever?  Why was there a receiver always open?  What they did do was contain the rush very well.  And they're making plays to turnover the ball.

The Oline was doing a bit better in the first half, I saw improvement...until Hardrick went down.  Like 17 said, they still aren't doing their job blocking or opening holes for Harris.

Willy...well...Buck Pierce is the QB coach, yeah I went there.  When Gene was QB coach last year near the beginning of the year before he went down, he looked like he was making progress.  Now it looks like he's gone a bit in reverse.  Last game he started looking decent, and he looked pretty good in the first half, not great, but pretty good.  Is he worth 400K...so far, he doesn't look like it.  But I don't blame him entirely.  We also need some speed at receiving.  We're missing that breakout receiver that every other team seems to have.  Adams is not it.  He's not bad but he just seems slow out there.

[Fatty Liver]

26 minutes ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

in fairness i was sitting relatively close to that 2nd last bomb to Dressler and got a 1 v 1 match up.  i cant remember the esks DB but he seriously had like a foot height advantage and used that height to umbrella dressler.  The ball was on the money but dresslers height really played a factor

That was Watkins, probably the tallest DB in the league, covering one of the shortest receivers in the league.  Great matchup!

Edited July 15, 2016 by Throw Long Bannatyne

[Goalie]

If that throw to dressler was on the money bombers win. Bottom line. Dressler was open for a moment but willy threw it behind him. If he hit dressler in stride like Reilly did with walker... that's a touchdown 

Edited July 15, 2016 by Goalie

[17to85]

25 minutes ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

in fairness i was sitting relatively close to that 2nd last bomb to Dressler and got a 1 v 1 match up.  i cant remember the esks DB but he seriously had like a foot height advantage and used that height to umbrella dressler.  The ball was on the money but dresslers height really played a factor

Pat Watkins who is like 6'5 and Dressler is like 5'7, nearly a foot in height advantage. This brings up something else I need to ask, who is this teams deep threat? Smith and Dressler are both short which doesn't allow them to really do like Bowman did for the esks last night and go up and win jump balls in tight coverage, Adams is just as likely to get easily boxed out as he is to go up and make a catch, it's not going to be Kohlert, Davis doesn't seem to be used that way. We just don't have that reliable downfield threat. Short guys need to flat out beat the coverage, I haven't seen Smith or Dressler do it yet when it's been thrown to them, tall guys need to be able to fight for some contested balls and Adams is so inconsistent in whether he will or won't. 

[Mike]

Drew Willy has officially lost me.

At this point, he's the problem. No, the OL is not perfect - but they are the best unit we've had in years. No, the receivers are not always making the great catches, but they're a strong group that we could win with. Andrew Harris? Working his tail off.

None of that means anything when Willy is not making the throws he needs to make. He's mentally shattered at this point and you can see it in his actions in the pocket - any time he gets a moment to actually think about a play, he blows it. Ask him to complete a quick three step drop and fire? He's going to be on the money, but you can't do that up and down the field and expect to win football games. He has yet to hit a receiver IN STRIDE over 20 yards this year and we're four games in. He has no touch on the deep ball this year at all. He can't escape even intermediate levels of pressure in the pocket.

He's been absolutely horrible and at this point, for the first time in three years, I'm starting to think of things like "what's it going to take to get James Franklin here?" instead of wondering what we can do to help our franchise QB. We don't have a franchise QB anymore.

[Mike]

1 minute ago, 17to85 said:

Pat Watkins who is like 6'5 and Dressler is like 5'7, nearly a foot in height advantage. This brings up something else I need to ask, who is this teams deep threat? Smith and Dressler are both short which doesn't allow them to really do like Bowman did for the esks last night and go up and win jump balls in tight coverage, Adams is just as likely to get easily boxed out as he is to go up and make a catch, it's not going to be Kohlert, Davis doesn't seem to be used that way. We just don't have that reliable downfield threat. Short guys need to flat out beat the coverage, I haven't seen Smith or Dressler do it yet when it's been thrown to them, tall guys need to be able to fight for some contested balls and Adams is so inconsistent in whether he will or won't. 

Honestly, our deep threats shouldn't need to win as many jump balls as they do. He should be able to hit these guys over the top in stride with the kind of separation they've been getting.

[17to85]

I know Willy has his problems, but a large part of that is the fact that he has no trust in his blocking. You see it when he does get time, he panics expecting the hits to come, and they do still come. The fact that we can't even get Andrew Harris, one of the top backs in the league established on the ground is yet another strike against the rest of the team too. Putting this on Willy is just plain old unfair to Drew. It's a team game and the team isn't doing enough all around right now. 

Even the great defensive performance left something to be desired. I mean that march by the Esks to end the first half was some disgusting stuff too. All I have ever said, is that there is plenty of blame to go around. 

[voodoochylde]

9 hours ago, Bubba Zanetti said:

I would agree last year the o-line didnt do Willy any favors but this year theyve been much better. Even Sherritt was quoted today saying this is the best o-line the bombers have had since he's been in the league. Willy is out of excuses.

Just because the O-Line is the best one the Bombers have had in that time frame doesn't mean that they are any good.  

I'm not letting Willy off the hook because he was ineffectual last night but on a lot of the deeper stuff, he was getting buried before he had a chance to throw and unlike Reilly, he had no pocket to step up into.  

Yes, there were instances where the line gave Willy time to throw the ball and there wasn't a whole lot open downfield.  Willy needs to use his release valves and make that decision more quickly.  He absolutely needs to be more accurate on the intermediate routes because until we can prove otherwise, the MO to blowing up this offense will be to sit on the underneath stuff and constantly bring heat on first down.  Put this team behind the sticks and we are in a world of hurt as an offense.

[Root]

28 minutes ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

That was Watkins, probably the tallest DB in the league, covering one of the shortest receivers in the league.  Great matchup!

A tall, efficient DB covering a dwarf-like WR with average speed, combined with a QB who can't keep the ball out of the gutter - NOT a very enticing situation.

[Fatty Liver]

28 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

I know Willy has his problems, but a large part of that is the fact that he has no trust in his blocking. You see it when he does get time, he panics expecting the hits to come, and they do still come. The fact that we can't even get Andrew Harris, one of the top backs in the league established on the ground is yet another strike against the rest of the team too. Putting this on Willy is just plain old unfair to Drew. It's a team game and the team isn't doing enough all around right now. 

Even the great defensive performance left something to be desired. I mean that march by the Esks to end the first half was some disgusting stuff too. All I have ever said, is that there is plenty of blame to go around. 

Question is why doesn't Willy trust his blocking?  He's taking no more hits this year than any of the other QB's in the league. The  O-line isn't great but they seem to now be about the league average in protection.  No reason for Willy to be shell-shocked this early in the season and in reality Reilly absorbed the more brutal hits last night of the two.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Throw Long Bannatyne

[Stickem]

5 minutes ago, Root said:

A tall, efficient DB covering a dwarf-like WR with average speed, combined with a QB who can't keep the ball out of the gutter - NOT a very enticing situation.

For sure all of that.......and like Mike I'm wondering what it would take to get Franklin here???? Of the three that were available at the time we signed Willy, he was last on my 'get him list'...Collaros was my first choice (if it weren't for the bad injury he'd be leading the league and is up there with the top qbs.) Burris was my second choice, at that time....Willy was a back up in Sask. that looked like a real good back-up and apparently he still is...We hitched our wagon once again to mediocrity and are now realizing the result....Buggah...

[Tracker]

5 minutes ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

Question is why doesn't Willy trust his blocking?  He's taking no more hits this year than any of the other QB's in the league. The  O-line isn't great but they seem to now be about the league average in protection.  No reason for Willy to be shell-shocked this early in the season and in reality Reilly absorbed the more brutal hits last night tof the two.

It may well be that Willy does not have the mental toughness needed to take a hit to make the play, or take repeated hits, period. I've seen guys in martial arts who were great in practice but wilted in real physical confrontation.

Edited July 15, 2016 by tracker

[17to85]

9 minutes ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

Question is why doesn't Willy trust his blocking?  He's taking no more hits this year than any of the other QB's in the league. The  O-line isn't great but they seem to now be about the league average in protection.  No reason for Willy to be shell-shocked this early in the season and in reality Reilly absorbed the more brutal hits last night of the two.

because he's been hit too many times in the past few years when he did trust them. You can see plain as day that the guy is gunshy and it only takes a few hits to get him thinking that he's not going to have the help from them. 

[StevetheClub]

4 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

because he's been hit too many times in the past few years when he did trust them. You can see plain as day that the guy is gunshy and it only takes a few hits to get him thinking that he's not going to have the help from them. 

And that is a well-articulated argument as to why his time as our starting QB is up.

[Super Duper Negatron]

48 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Pat Watkins who is like 6'5 and Dressler is like 5'7, nearly a foot in height advantage. This brings up something else I need to ask, who is this teams deep threat? Smith and Dressler are both short which doesn't allow them to really do like Bowman did for the esks last night and go up and win jump balls in tight coverage, Adams is just as likely to get easily boxed out as he is to go up and make a catch, it's not going to be Kohlert, Davis doesn't seem to be used that way. We just don't have that reliable downfield threat. Short guys need to flat out beat the coverage, I haven't seen Smith or Dressler do it yet when it's been thrown to them, tall guys need to be able to fight for some contested balls and Adams is so inconsistent in whether he will or won't. 

If he hits open receivers (like Smith and Dressler have BOTH been so far the year) in stride, those are TDs. No need to contest a jump ball.

[Root]

35 minutes ago, Stickem said:

For sure all of that.......and like Mike I'm wondering what it would take to get Franklin here???? Of the three that were available at the time we signed Willy, he was last on my 'get him list'...Collaros was my first choice (if it weren't for the bad injury he'd be leading the league and is up there with the top qbs.) Burris was my second choice, at that time....Willy was a back up in Sask. that looked like a real good back-up and apparently he still is...We hitched our wagon once again to mediocrity and are now realizing the result....Buggah...

Willy is no longer a franchise quarterback. He's a $400,000 white elephant. If they were privately owned or had a modicum of oversight the situation would be amended. But they don't. So, for the interim O'Shea's legendary stubbornness rules the day (with his .315 winning percentage)

[Root]

24 minutes ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

If he hits open receivers (like Smith and Dressler have BOTH been so far the year) in stride, those are TDs. No need to contest a jump ball.

Willy doesn't see the field like an ace like Reilly. Reilly is able to bounce off the pressure - and find any or all open guys - seemingly at will.