Does a blow out at home Thursday get MOS fired?

[Atomic]

4 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

I guess you've been wrong for 10 years then. 

Moving on from a bad coach, and that's what O'Shea is, can make a big difference. It can make players worry about their jobs that gets them out of their comfort zone and maybe makes them play better. Players may have 'tuned out' the old coach and may not be able to 'tune out' the new one. The new coach may pull the QB when he's not being effective. He may call the game more aggressively. He may demand changes from the coordinators to match his philosophy. He may sit players who aren't pulling their weight. He may change the way practices are run. He may want to bring in his kind of players from the NFL cuts. He may take the gags off of the players when they talk with the media. 

Keeping a losing coach just because you made the wrong decision to keep him at the end of last year doesn't do anyone any good and you only lose 2 seasons if you gift the new HC the next season AND he doesn't do any better than the fired one.

But the new coach would be Lapo and we already know he wouldn't do any of those things because we've seen it before. 

[Rich]

Title of the thread:

Quote

Does a blow out at home Thursday get MOS fired?

 

5 minutes ago, White Out said:

This thread has morphed into something I didn't quite want, another fire MOS thread. Was a simple question. But I am genuinely surprised to see people taking the position you can't or shouldn't fire MOS no matter what before the season ends. 1-6 should invite the conversation about his firing. 1-8 should, in a reasonable world, mean he gets fired. I can't see a justification for him being kept around in a 2 or 3 and 10 start either. 

Obviously we aren't there yet and thats all premature but if you make a blanket statement like "MOS isn't getting fired this year" or "shouldn't" then your kind of exposing yourself to that hypothetical. 

How would you expect it to turn into anything else?

[StevetheClub]

11 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

I guess you've been wrong for 10 years then. 

Moving on from a bad coach, and that's what O'Shea is, can make a big difference. It can make players worry about their jobs that gets them out of their comfort zone and maybe makes them play better. Players may have 'tuned out' the old coach and may not be able to 'tune out' the new one. The new coach may pull the QB when he's not being effective. He may call the game more aggressively. He may demand changes from the coordinators to match his philosophy. He may sit players who aren't pulling their weight. He may change the way practices are run. He may want to bring in his kind of players from the NFL cuts. He may take the gags off of the players when they talk with the media. 

Keeping a losing coach just because you made the wrong decision to keep him at the end of last year doesn't do anyone any good and you only lose 2 seasons if you gift the new HC the next season AND he doesn't do any better than the fired one.

Agreed. Increasingly keeping O'Shea is looking like throwing good money after bad and if things continue as they are I don't think he should last the season.

[The Unknown Poster]

The only thing about not firing a coach mid-season is, there still needs to be consequences.  Consequences for the HC not doing well and consequences for the team as a whole.  If the Bombers keep losing, I'd say fire him whenever it seems appropriate but if the decision is to keep him til season's end just because, then fire him week 8.  Or 9 or whenever.  Because failure has consequences.  And a message must be sent to the players and rest of the staff and fans that losing isnt acceptable.

Plus, because of the Bombers have two former HC's under contract, there would be less concern of a complete nose dive by promoting someone who doesnt have that experience.

[DR. CFL]

Keep the entire crew arose nd so they can suffer with the rest of us. Why s be them packing and getting paid to watch cartoons. You hired a crew of rookies..top on down and now we are three seasons into the rookie show.

[17to85]

24 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

I guess you've been wrong for 10 years then. 

Moving on from a bad coach, and that's what O'Shea is, can make a big difference. It can make players worry about their jobs that gets them out of their comfort zone and maybe makes them play better. Players may have 'tuned out' the old coach and may not be able to 'tune out' the new one. The new coach may pull the QB when he's not being effective. He may call the game more aggressively. He may demand changes from the coordinators to match his philosophy. He may sit players who aren't pulling their weight. He may change the way practices are run. He may want to bring in his kind of players from the NFL cuts. He may take the gags off of the players when they talk with the media. 

Keeping a losing coach just because you made the wrong decision to keep him at the end of last year doesn't do anyone any good and you only lose 2 seasons if you gift the new HC the next season AND he doesn't do any better than the fired one.

Hardly, we've been a pretty terrible team the last 10 years, seems to tell me that I'm 100% correct about it being a bad idea to fire people midseason right? 

If players need a coach being fired to perform well then that's even more of a reason not to fire the coach because you can't fire the coach every time a player needs a kick in the ass. How about we get some players that don't need that kind of motivation in the first place? 

There is nothing wrong with this team that a better GM can't fix and if you are firing MOS midseason you're basically committing to Walters for more time as well. If we're going to make changes then let's blow the whole ******* thing up in the offseason not try and do a half assed patch job that turns into a long term problem AGAIN. 

[17to85]

12 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

The only thing about not firing a coach mid-season is, there still needs to be consequences.  Consequences for the HC not doing well and consequences for the team as a whole.  If the Bombers keep losing, I'd say fire him whenever it seems appropriate but if the decision is to keep him til season's end just because, then fire him week 8.  Or 9 or whenever.  Because failure has consequences.  And a message must be sent to the players and rest of the staff and fans that losing isnt acceptable.

Plus, because of the Bombers have two former HC's under contract, there would be less concern of a complete nose dive by promoting someone who doesnt have that experience.

You don't think they already understand that losing has consequences? Poor performance always costs people jobs now and more importantly in the future. They all know that. 

Also, those former HCs were both fired for being terrible head coaches, how is that going to make things better?

[The Unknown Poster]

1 minute ago, 17to85 said:

You don't think they already understand that losing has consequences? Poor performance always costs people jobs now and more importantly in the future. They all know that. 

Also, those former HCs were both fired for being terrible head coaches, how is that going to make things better?

I think you risk sending a poor message if the team is off the rails and the ONLY reason you dont fire someone is "because why not just wait til season's end".  If the season ended today and you'd fire him, then fire him today.  (Im not advocating firing him and I still think the team can turn it around, its early). 

My point on the HC's was pretty clear I thought.  If you fire a HC mid-season and have to elevate an inexperienced person on an interim basis for the rst of the season that has risks.  But because Lapo & Hall have both done it, its an easier transition.  Doesnt mean they will be successful, just that it's an easier transition.  Besides, was the team any better since they fired Lapo?

[17to85]

If you fire people in the offseason all those players you sent a poor message to are gone anyway because they aren't good enough. We've tried this firing the coach thing before thinking that it would have a big impact, but since Ritchie was fired the best this team has accomplished is 2 seasons of better than .500. Firing coaches clearly isn't the answer.

[TBURGESS]

1 minute ago, 17to85 said:

Hardly, we've been a pretty terrible team the last 10 years, seems to tell me that I'm 100% correct about it being a bad idea to fire people midseason right? 

If players need a coach being fired to perform well then that's even more of a reason not to fire the coach because you can't fire the coach every time a player needs a kick in the ass. How about we get some players that don't need that kind of motivation in the first place? 

There is nothing wrong with this team that a better GM can't fix and if you are firing MOS midseason you're basically committing to Walters for more time as well. If we're going to make changes then let's blow the whole ******* thing up in the offseason not try and do a half assed patch job that turns into a long term problem AGAIN. 

In the last 10 years, we've replaced one HC, PLAP with Burke mid-season and gave him the job the next year. Back in '04 Daley took over from Ritchie and got the job the next year. In '98 Hoffman took over from Reinebold, didn't get the next year as HC and we hired Ritchie who had won a GC and who had never been out of the playoffs as a HC, so you don't have to keep the interim HC on.

It's about who you hire as the HC in the off season, not who you appoint as interim HC.

[do or die]

Well, we like to speculate on what the "new coach" might do....to improve things.   The deal is to hire someone, for once....who could actually do it.

The other option is yet another recycled failed coach.   This organization's track record does not breed a great deal of confidence.   

[Mr Dee]

The firing of MOS before season's end makes it easier to promote one of the Co-ordinators. Lawd, do we really want to see that again? Seriously, Hall or LaPolice? 

I definitely know we don't want to see more losing, so if it continues, and if they fire O'Shea, can we please get somebody from outside the org.? But that won't happen, because really, who's out there?

No, it looks like we have to keep Mikey, but we can be really mean to him. Like make him wear cargo pants and make actually answer questions. Or make the Coach's show two hours. Or is that too much?

The only solution I see is we gotta win to get out of this mess. And the boys, his students, are right there for him. Come hell or high Walters.

[Mr. Perfect]

Because it's worked out oh so wonderfully the last time we've fired coaches mid season (Ritchie/Daley, Lapo/Burke)

Who are we going to replace him with, hypothetically if we do? Lapo? Hall? With their "pristine" head coaching records, give me a break. IF this season ends up being another dismal one, then relax - O'Shea won't be back and everyone knows it. That said firing him at ANY point during the season accomplishes NOTHING BENEFICIAL whatsoever.

[Mr. Perfect]

31 minutes ago, do or die said:

The other option is yet another recycled failed coach.   This organization's track record does not breed a great deal of confidence.   

My fear, regardless if it's a mid season change or next season change is that Lapo is named the team's next head coach. I can hardly wait (sarcasm) to hear stories again of how he'd make players stand up in the locker room and confess to their penalties on the field and talk about how it hurt that team - as though that's supposed to be some sort of deterrent. 

That and hitch passes four times a game that go for negative yardage.

[Rich]

Found an interesting article from back in 2012 that looked at the impact of firing a coach mid-season in all 4 of the major sports.  Turns out on average, firing a coach mid season increases your winning percentage from .428 to .450

http://www.sbnation.com/2012/4/10/2936696/head-coach-fired-stats

For me, at this point I really don't care if we fire O'Shea mid season or hang on to him.  Either way, it looks like we are heading for another losing season....

[Slingin Sammy]

13 minutes ago, Mr. Perfect said:

Because it's worked out oh so wonderfully the last time we've fired coaches mid season (Ritchie/Daley, Lapo/Burke)

Who are we going to replace him with, hypothetically if we do? Lapo? Hall? With their "pristine" head coaching records, give me a break. IF this season ends up being another dismal one, then relax - O'Shea won't be back and everyone knows it. That said firing him at ANY point during the season accomplishes NOTHING BENEFICIAL whatsoever.

The firing would cater to the pitch fork mob...that's about all we'd be accomplishing...statistically unlikely that it will result in a huge turnaround for the team's on field product.

[iso_55]

Why would you NOT THINK that this thread wouldn't have morphed into a fire O'Shea thread? I mean, c'mon man.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

15 minutes ago, iso_55 said:

Why would you NOT THINK that this thread wouldn't have morphed into a fire O'Shea thread? I mean, c'mon man.

Because morphing implies changing from one thing into another?

[TBURGESS]

We hired Reinebold, Kelly, PLAP and O'Shea in off seasons and all of them were busts, so it's not a problem of promoting coaches during the season. The problem lies in hiring potential instead of HC's who've been there, done that, with a good record.

[Atomic]

5 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

We hired Reinebold, Kelly, PLAP and O'Shea in off seasons and all of them were busts, so it's not a problem of promoting coaches during the season. The problem lies in hiring potential instead of HC's who've been there, done that, with a good record.

So then what difference does it make if we fire O'Shea now or in the offseason?  To send a message?  What message, and to whom?

[17to85]

Honestly why don't we address the real problem here... the general manager. Dave Ritchie was hired to be GM and the team was good. It failed when Bauer started picking people like Daley and Kelly to be head coaches. Taman had his warts but Berry was at least an avearge coach who got average results, Mack hired bad coaches we all know that because Lapo and Burke were both terrible, Walters has a terrible record all around as a GM except when it comes to winning free agency day. So why don't we stop wasting time bickering about Mike O'Shea and start pointing the finger where it belongs... at Kyle Walters. 

[Ripper]

To the thread, no way MOS is getting fired anytime soon. I rarely support a mid season firing, who am I kidding once I turn on the coach I want him gone the next day. What I meant to say was I agree that changing coaches in mid season usually doesn't turn anything around. Mid season GM moves are good ones however, especially when you have a idiot like Taman in charge, get him the f out of there before he trades all your assets away for some magic beans

Edited July 20, 2016 by Ripper

[Atomic]

2 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Honestly why don't we address the real problem here... the general manager. Dave Ritchie was hired to be GM and the team was good. It failed when Bauer started picking people like Daley and Kelly to be head coaches. Taman had his warts but Berry was at least an avearge coach who got average results, Mack hired bad coaches we all know that because Lapo and Burke were both terrible, Walters has a terrible record all around as a GM except when it comes to winning free agency day. So why don't we stop wasting time bickering about Mike O'Shea and start pointing the finger where it belongs... at Kyle Walters. 

Lapo wasn't that bad.  He was ok.  2012 was on Mack and his terrible player recruitment.  No depth on the OL and in the secondary killed us.  Now that was a mid season firing that should have never happened.

[Blueandgold]

1 hour ago, Mr. Perfect said:

Because it's worked out oh so wonderfully the last time we've fired coaches mid season (Ritchie/Daley, Lapo/Burke)

Who are we going to replace him with, hypothetically if we do? Lapo? Hall? With their "pristine" head coaching records, give me a break. IF this season ends up being another dismal one, then relax - O'Shea won't be back and everyone knows it. That said firing him at ANY point during the season accomplishes NOTHING BENEFICIAL whatsoever.

Richie at 16-20 and Lapo at 16-28 actually both have better records than O'Shea at 13-27. 

8-10 honestly sounds pretty great right about now, and NO I don't' want Richie or Lapo as our coach next year.

[iso_55]

47 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Because morphing implies changing from one thing into another?

White Out had to know this would happen. How could he not?