Time for a Real GM

[Bigblue204]

1 hour ago, Doublezero said:

Met Walters only once and found him to be completely full of himself, arrogant and condescending, which was a bit of a surprise considering he was a forgettable CFL player and quite inconsequential coach before rising to his current lofty position. My criticism isn't based on that one negative interpersonal experience however. My criticism would be based on the cumulative totality of negative experiences I have had as a Bomber fan watching Walters-managed teams consistently lose since mid 2013. His W-L record so far is 15 wins 39 losses I believe. No doubt it will be 15-40 next week. That fact in itself should more than qualify him for a one-way ticket to CIS football, Golds Gym manager, bag boy or whatever.

I've also only met him once, and I had the exact opposite impression. He was very friendly and willing to talk ball basically as long as i was. When I left he shook my hand etc. I can't really say it was anything but positive. 

[17to85]

1 hour ago, wbbfan said:

we have tons and tons of talent at wr. Our centre started what 9 games last year at centre? not a rookie. We are down like 5 starting dbs and it still is better then the terrible soft deep cover they are forced to play. We have qbing, we dont have a mega star that will carry the team but those are few and far between. You dont need one to win though you need a team that works well to win.

Your forgetting and writing off how horrible this team was under mack and the utter disaster he left. Nearly no NI talent, completely rebuilt in to the strength of the team now. Weve got the pieces, tons of pieces and talent. This isnt an air lift and pray team. Weve seen lots of those in the past 20 years. This team has a ton of proven talent that is under performing. Schemes and coaching is to blame. And an OL that is the most under performing of the bunch.

I think you are forgetting.... Mack has a better record than Walters and at least he made the playoffs one season and even appeared in the Grey Cup. We got some nice depth NI guys but how many real impact ones do we have? Who is our best NI player (other than Harris who any Winnipeg GM would have signed given he is a local and a proven commodity?) Never mind that it was Walters who was the NI guy for Mack anyway, and we can see from his work as GM that there isn't all that much difference in how the drafting has gone. At least Mack put some playmakers on the field from out of nowhere. All Walters does is spend in free agency and hope for the best. No team has ever been built through free agency. 

[iso_55]

3 hours ago, Dragon37 said:

Are you related to MOS? You freakishly unwavering faith in him. More often than not this team is completely unprepared to play a game. I swear to God Walters could load the team with all-stars and they would suck. Yeah Walters needs to go. Yeah most of the talent he has found isn't that good. I freaking said this from the start. He had a position of some authority to do something when he was Assistant GM and he did nothing. Hell the guy is supposed to be some CIS guru, they hired him for that six years ago, and he still hasn't produced a decent line-up of Canucks. All that aside, he has given MOS some decent players and coaches to work with and MOS still can't get them to play a game resembling football.

Whatever excuse you and MOS want to use is fine but stop trying to sell it to the rest of us because it is a hot stinking load of BS. MOS is utter hopeless as an HC it is as plain as day.

Agree, don't get 17's unwavering love & loyalty to MOS. He's a terrible HC in way over his head. The guy never should have been brought back but was. Walters needs to go as well. While we are better than we were in 2013 talent wise, after 3 years it's not enough. We're stuck in neutral as an organization & the losing just goes on & on. Soon we'll be going backwards. Changes have to be made. This is on Wade Miller.

[Floyd]

Whether there is an internal budget or whether its Walters (and Mack before him), this team ditches vets on an annual basis...

I don't believe any other team has such a consistent roster turnover like the bombers since 2008.  Teams have 'rebuilt' but not every single year...

What also concerns me is the loss of Howell and Miles this off-season in what looks like lateral moves - not sure what to make of that

It seems there is an internal budget cap for coaches as well...  this is likely the root of the problem

Bombers would never shell out for a Jones/Murphy combo

[Rich]

4 minutes ago, Floyd said:

Whether there is an internal budget or whether its Walters (and Mack before him), this team ditches vets on an annual basis...

I don't believe any other team has such a consistent roster turnover like the bombers since 2008.  Teams have 'rebuilt' but not every single year...

What also concerns me is the loss of Howell and Miles this off-season in what looks like lateral moves - not sure what to make of that

It seems there is an internal budget cap for coaches as well...  this is likely the root of the problem

Bombers would never shell out for a Jones/Murphy combo

I don't think the budget on players is any different than any other team.  Every team spends about the same with the cap.

Why have the Bombers had so much turnover since 2008?  Is there a team with a worse overall record since 2008?  Losing brings change.

Can't argue much on the budget for GMs and coaches.  Whether by design or not, we seem to hire the cheapest guys.

[JuranBoldenRules]

To me it all comes down to the line of scrimmage.

Walters needed to improve our team at the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball.  Pretty much all that was done to make this team functional was adding Cummings.  Shologan is an average player, not a good player and far from a difference maker.

Our offensive line is an embarrassment.  Poor technically and can't even hold its own physically. Getting their asses kicked week after week again, just like the last two seasons, but probably even worse.

If you want to win you need to be able to set the tone at the line of scrimmage.  Sure it might not happen every week, but with this crew it's not even a possibility.  You can have an all-star RB, SB, a good QB, three good QB's, a good set of LB's....doesn't matter if you get your ass kicked repeatedly at the line of scrimmage.

Work the ratio how ever you need to as to avoid getting physically dominated at the line.  This is beyond embarrassing.

[pigseye]

5 hours ago, do or die said:

Well, when WE tried that....we got Mike Kelly..

As GM and Murphy as PP, would have been okay, but as a HC he was doomed.

[Mike]

18 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

I've also only met him once, and I had the exact opposite impression. He was very friendly and willing to talk ball basically as long as i was. When I left he shook my hand etc. I can't really say it was anything but positive. 

I've always found it interesting that the level headed individuals on this forum that describe their interactions with executives, players, coaches, etc always seem to come away with a positive impression. It's only a "certain" type of individual who seems to describe their experiences as poor. Almost as if their behavior is what led to the way they were treated.

 

[iso_55]

Rich is right. The Bombers made two cheap hires. Walters & MOS. You get what you pay for. I have no idea what the organization is paying Miller the architect of this mess but it's way too much.

[do or die]

Paying money for proven winners...... is not a Bomber specialty.  Pseudo exhaustive searches resulting in recycled, buddy boy, in house, and cheap hires.....is.   Then we wonder why we don't build a winner.....

[pigseye]

4 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

To me it all comes down to the line of scrimmage.

Walters needed to improve our team at the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball.  Pretty much all that was done to make this team functional was adding Cummings.  Shologan is an average player, not a good player and far from a difference maker.

Our offensive line is an embarrassment.  Poor technically and can't even hold its own physically. Getting their asses kicked week after week again, just like the last two seasons, but probably even worse.

If you want to win you need to be able to set the tone at the line of scrimmage.  Sure it might not happen every week, but with this crew it's not even a possibility.  You can have an all-star RB, SB, a good QB, three good QB's, a good set of LB's....doesn't matter if you get your ass kicked repeatedly at the line of scrimmage.

Work the ratio how ever you need to as to avoid getting physically dominated at the line.  This is beyond embarrassing.

It's not just the los, every position on the team is getting their ass kicked. When the backups had to come into the secondary last night, they were more physical than anything we had seen before. Wild could have had Messam for a loss on that final killing TD drive and wiffed. The entire team just can't compete physically especially with Edmonton and Calgary who are just bigger, faster teams.

[The Unknown Poster]

10 minutes ago, iso_55 said:

Rich is right. The Bombers made two cheap hires. Walters & MOS. You get what you pay for. I have no idea what the organization is paying Miller the architect of this mess but it's way too much.

Miller is being paid to make money for the team primarily, right?  He is doing that.  Miller wont be going anywhere.

I think Walters deserves another chance to hire a HC.

I dont know that MOS has lost the room, but TSN was playing comments from players who stated the team had no energy or urgency.  Im sure they like MOS, but is he getting the most out of them?  Is he inspiring winners?

[iso_55]

De

Just now, The Unknown Poster said:

Miller is being paid to make money for the team primarily, right?  He is doing that.  Miller wont be going anywhere.

I think Walters deserves another chance to hire a HC.

I dont know that MOS has lost the room, but TSN was playing comments from players who stated the team had no energy or urgency.  Im sure they like MOS, but is he getting the most out of them?  Is he inspiring winners?

Depends on how bad the losing continues. If we end up 4-14 say, with MOS or an interim head coach then I can't see Walters surviving. It'll all become clear over the next 13 games.

[Noeller]

I don't think the Bombers intentionally cheaped out on their hires...I think the best names just either weren't available, or they weren't coming here under any circumstances. Look at Stubler as an example. That guy wasn't coming to Winnipeg, no matter how much you paid him. We have a horrible reputation and I'm not sure anyone of worth is going to come here, regardless of money. Now, having said that, we might be able to overpay drastically to get someone experienced...or at least, that's my hope...

[do or die]

2 ways to get the right guy:

1. Pay whatever it takes for proven winner.

2. Find the next top young talent coming into his own

 

We don't spend the dough on the first and are incapable of locating the other.

 

[Floyd]

6 minutes ago, do or die said:

2 ways to get the right guy:

1. Pay whatever it takes for proven winner.

2. Find the next top young talent coming into his own

 

We don't spend the dough on the first and are incapable of locating the other.

 

Exactly.

Bombers apparently offered more $$ to Collaros but he is on record as choosing Kent Austin... over Gary Crowton

[do or die]

Well, The Bombers have established a bit of a reputation.  Not too many top guys want to join a tire fire, or as a QB... play with the coaches and OL's that have passed through here

[iso_55]

2 minutes ago, Floyd said:

Exactly.

Bombers apparently offered more $$ to Collaros but he is on record as choosing Kent Austin... over Gary Crowton

With our offensive line, Collaros would be permanently in a wheel chair by now. Aaron Rodgers or Russell Wilson couldn't save this team.

[gcdrought]

One thing that's missed is the validity of this talk about 'signing all-stars'.  If you follow football and i think most of us do, you know that 29-year-old running backs and 30+ receivers are past their prime years.  We'll get production out of both Harris and Dressler because of their past quality, but they are not worth the money we're paying them.   Weston is not the deep threat he once was and you could see in Harris's final year in B.C. that he's not the threat he was as well.  That's normal; it's football aging.  These guys will still give us some production, but there's no way it will match their all-star years.

So when we give major money to a QB with no winning resume, and big money to free agents past their prime it really becomes a question of judgement, because these big contracts affect the other salaries we can pay.  I wanted the current regime to work, probably mostly because of patriotism.  But 2 1/3 years in, I don't see a lot of reason for optimism.  I am just as tired as everybody about the constant re-building.  But it doesn't feel like we're progressing at all.

[Dr. Blue]

The person who comes here and is able to win the Grey Cup, will be a King around here. They will probably get their own statue!

 

[iso_55]

As a fan, the only thing now that will satisfy me is if Kyle Walters & Mike O'Shea are fired along with every scout & assistant coach along with them. Man, 12-24 going into this season & nothing was done. Thank you Gary Lawless for leading the media charge to keep these guys around. Next time stick to hockey.

[iso_55]

Tick, tock. Tick,tock. Tick, tock.

 

http://www.tsn.ca/bombers-not-expected-to-make-staff-changes-1.530991

[DR. CFL]

Interesting  the sentiment about making a mistake in bringing back MOS this season. The greater mistake was his initial hire. As to Miller making the Club money. Attendance is dive bombing. The Womens  soccerr deal was in the works long before Mr. Miller was on the scene. A blind squirrel could collect the nuts from the upcoming NHL game.....thanks Mr Chipman. 

[bb1]

I think we open the fault and offer Huffer anything he wants to rebuild this franchise.Coach ,GM hell part owner whatever it takes we need to dig out of this mess.We need to spend for the best.Start at the top the rest will take care of itself.

[Guest J5V]

5 hours ago, Old Bomber Fan said:

It sure sounds like a lot of people are frustrated with the product, however developed, we have been witnessing here in Winnipeg for too long a number of years. They have every right to be however I think, we, the fans see the symptoms  but not necessary the solutions nor the problems. This is an organization that has a lot more problems than we see. The signing of Willy to a huge contract for 2016 with little justification from his past play is an example. That signing alone suggests that from the top down and that includes the BOD either cannot evaluate performance, are blind or do not assess and take definitive action when someone suggests such a signing whomever it might be.

The play of the players, even though we have signed what, 8 CFL allstars in the past 2 years of free agency, do not play up to expectations or again to past performances, then that would suggest I think that they are not held accountable, there is no consequence to poor play and they are comfortable with playing at that level rather than striving to up the quality of their game.

The actual style of play has not changed in what 5 or 6 years on either side of the ball. Our defense in the past were always hung out to dry because they were on the field too long and by the 4th quarter were a beaten group. The time of possession was always tilted in a large way and not in their favour.

The offense could not or would not generate a running game, a long passing game and relied on YAC. This while incorporated in the other two aspects would certainly be helpful, it is not the end all to be all in making an offense productive. And frankly this type of dink and dunk offense has been in Winnipeg for a number of years - we could but am not certain, go back to the Berry days were at least we threw the ball downfield.

The special teams remains a question mark even though we are supposed to have the best ST coordinator in MOS. For half a year it was something however for the remaining time of his tenure it isn't great. Now I realize he hasn't taken over but I am pretty sure he is most influential in this area of the game.

The defense and this bend and break philosophy doesn't work any longer in the CFL. This has been proven time and time again not only with our team but others who try to implement it. Far too often the give on the receiver is far too wide especially when it is second and long for the opposition. They are not passionate or energized and if they are they certainly don't play like it.

Coaching, players, scouting, management, all play a part in developing a successful team. When one component doesn't do it's job the other factors are also hurt and consequently defeat becomes a recurring theme. Unfortunately this is the Bombers.

How to change? I don't have an answer but I do believe you cannot keep blowing the entire thing up every 2 years to make it better. But one thing that might help is to get our collective heads out of the sand and realize what we have, analyze what we have to do to make it better in all aspects and get on with it.

I wish them luck but as I have said before, I am certainly glad I did not renew my season tickets. This team is not moving forward or for that matter treading water, it is slowing sinking yet again with no life vests in site. 

I saw fans sitting in the stands yesterday, arms folded over each other, staring with a fixed gaze at the proceedings, angry as hell. I suspect they were season ticket holders as they had good seats. They were not cheering when we did something good on the field, neither were they booing when we screwed up. They were just watching intently with a frown of scorn. Completely pissed off. You could feel their disgust. 

Unlike you, Maybe they had renewed their tickets for this year, hadn't given up yet, still had hope. These were the diehards. Maybe they will never give up. A special breed. Maybe like a fiercely loyal species of dog, that no matter how badly abused and neglected, will always stay by their masters side, even in their master's very worst moments. That's some kind of dog, right there. Some kind of fan. A rare and dying breed.